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This would be very interesting to look into if you cited a source.

by DiscourseFan 3y ago

nemo44x 3y ago
[flagged]
- DiscourseFan 3y ago
  >NYT cites overworked employees as the cause but leaves out the ongoing and dangerous agenda in the FAA to prioritize diversity over merit. I was looking for more info on your claim, not another claim from someone else that only says something was being left out, without actually showing the very thing that was purported to have been elided.
  - a1o 3y ago
    Maybe the problem is diverse employees have less power to negotiate changes and improvements in the workplace like the issues cited in the NY piece - building and infrastructure issues and the short staffing.
- defrost 3y ago
  Just to be clear, your source for your opinion expressed in your comment on this forum is another opinion expressed on Xitter? Do you have any kind of more primary source, data on hiring changes, studies that correlate incidents with more recent hires, etc. Or just the strong opinions of some fellow travelling RestoreUSA types?
Dalewyn 3y ago
"Affirmative Action Lands in the Air Traffic Control Tower", Wall Street Journal (June 2, 2015): https://archive.is/lDyOB https://archive.is/lDyOB >A recently completed six-month investigation by Fox Business Network found that the Federal Aviation Administration has quietly moved away from merit-based hiring criteria in order to increase the number of women and minorities who staff airport control towers. The changes come despite the fact that the FAA’s own internal reports describe the evidence for changing the hiring process as “weak.” >Until 2013, the FAA gave hiring preference to controller applicants who earned a degree from one of its Collegiate Training Initiative schools and scored high enough on an eight-hour screening test called the Air Traffic Selection and Training exam, or AT-SAT, which measures cognitive skills. The Obama administration, however, determined that the process excluded too many from minority groups.
- DiscourseFan 3y ago
  This is very troubling if it is true, but the reporting felt a bit thin. If there was an article with interviews and more concrete evidence I would be more satisfied.
- stevenae 3y ago
  "Fox Business (officially known as Fox Business Network, or FBN) is an American conservative business news channel and website publication owned by the Fox News Media division of Fox Corporation." ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Business https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Business
  - z7 3y ago
    [flagged]
AdrianB1 3y ago
A few weeks ago I heard about this from another pilot; I found several sources with a minimum of effort. I only fly in Europe, so I have zero personal experience with what is going on in US, but the narative makes sense to me as I saw it personally in other areas.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
z7 3y ago
Here's an academic publication from 2018, but it doesn't seem to make any explicit claims about diversity related reasons for the changes in the hiring process: >The hiring process for aspiring federal air traffic controllers from approved Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) institutions has undergone several revisions in recent years. Prior to 2014, graduates from AT-CTI programs were given preferential hiring from the FAA. In 2014, the FAA announced that AT-CTI graduates would equally compete with thousands of people the FAA calls “off the street hires”--anyone can literally walk in off the street without any previous training and apply for a federal air traffic control job. To apply, the FAA requires that a candidate has United States (U.S.) citizenship, a high school diploma, speaks English, and passes the FAA’s new Biographical Questionnaire (BQ). >Another concerning perspective from AT-CTI administrators is that CTI graduates are at an employment disadvantage with the new hiring initiatives. One of the responding administrators expressed concern that off the street applicants have increased odds of employment over CTI applicants because CTI students are combined in track one with Veteran’s Readjustment Appointment (VRA) applicants putting CTI students second while all off the street applicants are grouped as one and have an equal opportunity for selection. >The new FAA hiring protocol for federal air traffic controllers that was implemented in February 2014 included several significant changes. In particular, the FAA reduced the role of the CTI-approved program; therefore, the only remaining advantage for CTI graduates is that they are eligible to bypass the Air Traffic Basics Course, which is the first five weeks of qualification training at the FAA Academy in Oklahoma City (FAA, 2018). In addition, the FAA introduced the Biographical Questionnaire which was envisioned to predict controller performance through a process of asking individuals to recall their typical and/or specific behaviors from earlier times in their lives. But due to the lengthy process of hiring and training an air traffic controller which can take several years, it is too soon to conclude whether the FAA’s new hiring policies improved the ability to hire individuals who are more likely to successfully become federal controllers (FAA, 2017b). https://ojs.library.okstate.edu/osu/index.php/CARI/article/view/7406 https://ojs.library.okstate.edu/osu/index.php/CARI/article/v...

This would be very interesting to look into if you cited a source.

nemo44x 3y ago

[flagged]

DiscourseFan 3y ago
>NYT cites overworked employees as the cause but leaves out the ongoing and dangerous agenda in the FAA to prioritize diversity over merit. I was looking for more info on your claim, not another claim from someone else that only says something was being left out, without actually showing the very thing that was purported to have been elided.
- a1o 3y ago
  Maybe the problem is diverse employees have less power to negotiate changes and improvements in the workplace like the issues cited in the NY piece - building and infrastructure issues and the short staffing.
defrost 3y ago
Just to be clear, your source for your opinion expressed in your comment on this forum is another opinion expressed on Xitter? Do you have any kind of more primary source, data on hiring changes, studies that correlate incidents with more recent hires, etc. Or just the strong opinions of some fellow travelling RestoreUSA types?

Dalewyn 3y ago

"Affirmative Action Lands in the Air Traffic Control Tower", Wall Street Journal (June 2, 2015): https://archive.is/lDyOB https://archive.is/lDyOB >A recently completed six-month investigation by Fox Business Network found that the Federal Aviation Administration has quietly moved away from merit-based hiring criteria in order to increase the number of women and minorities who staff airport control towers. The changes come despite the fact that the FAA’s own internal reports describe the evidence for changing the hiring process as “weak.” >Until 2013, the FAA gave hiring preference to controller applicants who earned a degree from one of its Collegiate Training Initiative schools and scored high enough on an eight-hour screening test called the Air Traffic Selection and Training exam, or AT-SAT, which measures cognitive skills. The Obama administration, however, determined that the process excluded too many from minority groups.

DiscourseFan 3y ago
This is very troubling if it is true, but the reporting felt a bit thin. If there was an article with interviews and more concrete evidence I would be more satisfied.
stevenae 3y ago
"Fox Business (officially known as Fox Business Network, or FBN) is an American conservative business news channel and website publication owned by the Fox News Media division of Fox Corporation." ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Business https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Business
- z7 3y ago
  [flagged]

AdrianB1 3y ago

A few weeks ago I heard about this from another pilot; I found several sources with a minimum of effort. I only fly in Europe, so I have zero personal experience with what is going on in US, but the narative makes sense to me as I saw it personally in other areas.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

z7 3y ago

Here's an academic publication from 2018, but it doesn't seem to make any explicit claims about diversity related reasons for the changes in the hiring process: >The hiring process for aspiring federal air traffic controllers from approved Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) institutions has undergone several revisions in recent years. Prior to 2014, graduates from AT-CTI programs were given preferential hiring from the FAA. In 2014, the FAA announced that AT-CTI graduates would equally compete with thousands of people the FAA calls “off the street hires”--anyone can literally walk in off the street without any previous training and apply for a federal air traffic control job. To apply, the FAA requires that a candidate has United States (U.S.) citizenship, a high school diploma, speaks English, and passes the FAA’s new Biographical Questionnaire (BQ). >Another concerning perspective from AT-CTI administrators is that CTI graduates are at an employment disadvantage with the new hiring initiatives. One of the responding administrators expressed concern that off the street applicants have increased odds of employment over CTI applicants because CTI students are combined in track one with Veteran’s Readjustment Appointment (VRA) applicants putting CTI students second while all off the street applicants are grouped as one and have an equal opportunity for selection. >The new FAA hiring protocol for federal air traffic controllers that was implemented in February 2014 included several significant changes. In particular, the FAA reduced the role of the CTI-approved program; therefore, the only remaining advantage for CTI graduates is that they are eligible to bypass the Air Traffic Basics Course, which is the first five weeks of qualification training at the FAA Academy in Oklahoma City (FAA, 2018). In addition, the FAA introduced the Biographical Questionnaire which was envisioned to predict controller performance through a process of asking individuals to recall their typical and/or specific behaviors from earlier times in their lives. But due to the lengthy process of hiring and training an air traffic controller which can take several years, it is too soon to conclude whether the FAA’s new hiring policies improved the ability to hire individuals who are more likely to successfully become federal controllers (FAA, 2017b). https://ojs.library.okstate.edu/osu/index.php/CARI/article/view/7406 https://ojs.library.okstate.edu/osu/index.php/CARI/article/v...