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> The fact is that Ukraine was being turned against Russia. Funny. I thought it was the invasion in 2014 and the crimes against humanity committed by invading

by mopsi 3y ago

> The fact is that Ukraine was being turned against Russia. Funny. I thought it was the invasion in 2014 and the crimes against humanity committed by invading Russians that soured relations between Ukraine and Russia. Are Americans at fault for rising anti-German tensions in Poland back in 1939 too?

xcv123 3y ago
The annexation of Crimea occurred immediately after the 2014 revolution. The west made their move and Russia responded.
- mopsi 3y ago
  That's not how the events unfolded. Russians pressured Ukrainian president to block a very favorable trade deal with the EU that had already received overwhelming support and passed the parliament. The general public responded with massive protests, Ukrainian president mishandled the situation and gave order to shoot at protesters, protests grew even larger in response, and the president eventually fled to Russia. Russians used the time of internal turmoil as an opportunity to invade Crimea and Eastern Ukraine to further their interest of expanding Russia to the extent of the Soviet Union. You don't need to construct elaborate conspiracy theories about CIA involvement, when Ukrainians were mad as hell over losing the opportunity to see their income sharply rise from open trade with the EU, like everyone else in Eastern Europe before them had seen.
  - xcv123 3y ago
    The US agencies involvement in such events is a mundane obvious fact at this point. It would be a conspiracy theory for there NOT to be any involvement by the US in such a critical sequence of events against one of their major adversaries. That is a very naive perspective. https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Today there is a proxy war between the US and Russia in Ukraine. $100B of US military backing so far, and it's not over yet.
    - mopsi 3y ago
      None of this refutes what I wrote. If you're in the mood to read Wikipedia, then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_involvement_in_regime_c... Looking at the amount of brown color on the map, you may notice that Russia has invaded all their neighbours at one point or another.
      - xcv123 3y ago
        Yes we all know about the USSR and its vast expansion post WW2. The USSR no longer exists. Russia is involved in regime change in Ukraine right now, today. But it's obviously not a covert operation.

by mopsi 3y ago

xcv123 3y ago

The annexation of Crimea occurred immediately after the 2014 revolution. The west made their move and Russia responded.

mopsi 3y ago
That's not how the events unfolded. Russians pressured Ukrainian president to block a very favorable trade deal with the EU that had already received overwhelming support and passed the parliament. The general public responded with massive protests, Ukrainian president mishandled the situation and gave order to shoot at protesters, protests grew even larger in response, and the president eventually fled to Russia. Russians used the time of internal turmoil as an opportunity to invade Crimea and Eastern Ukraine to further their interest of expanding Russia to the extent of the Soviet Union. You don't need to construct elaborate conspiracy theories about CIA involvement, when Ukrainians were mad as hell over losing the opportunity to see their income sharply rise from open trade with the EU, like everyone else in Eastern Europe before them had seen.
- xcv123 3y ago
  The US agencies involvement in such events is a mundane obvious fact at this point. It would be a conspiracy theory for there NOT to be any involvement by the US in such a critical sequence of events against one of their major adversaries. That is a very naive perspective. https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... Today there is a proxy war between the US and Russia in Ukraine. $100B of US military backing so far, and it's not over yet.
  - mopsi 3y ago
    None of this refutes what I wrote. If you're in the mood to read Wikipedia, then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_involvement_in_regime_c... Looking at the amount of brown color on the map, you may notice that Russia has invaded all their neighbours at one point or another.
    - xcv123 3y ago
      Yes we all know about the USSR and its vast expansion post WW2. The USSR no longer exists. Russia is involved in regime change in Ukraine right now, today. But it's obviously not a covert operation.