2 ms·

Great point, and the study even admits that point "Limitations: First, the success of allocation blinding was not assessed, and it is likely that the acute psy

Great point, and the study even admits that point "Limitations: First, the success of allocation blinding was not assessed, and it is likely that the acute psychoactive effects of psilocybin produced some degree of functional unblinding that may have contributed to the observed effect in psilocybin-treated participants and the increased dropout rate in niacin-treated participants." Unblinding = participants figure out if they got the real thing I think a recent ketamine study found a lot of the clinical effect went away if participants weren't awake/aware of the treatment. Wonder if that could be used here.

cubefox 3y ago
Yeah, though perhaps it is the trip itself that causes the antidepressive effect, so if you prevent the trip via sleep, the effect goes away.
- carlmr 3y ago
  Exactly my thought. It's often reported that the antidepressant effect came from the increased ability to look at your problems from a new perspective. If this new perspective isn't experienced, it seems highly unlikely this would work. Thinking about the mechanism of classic anti-depressants like SSRIs, you expect a boosted effect of the happy chemicals to make people more happy. With anything that is few or single-dose you expect changes in thought and behavior patterns to have the antidepressant effect. These lasting changes must come from something that is not happy chemicals, but a new perspective on life.
amanaplanacanal 3y ago
It’s also possible that the conscious experience of the effect is part of what makes it work. I’m not sure how you would test that out.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  I don’t think you can. But if a certain action routinely produces sustained change, that can also be fine. Eg, you can’t blind participants to whether they receive real therapy or a conversation about the weather, but we’ve concluded that therapy is useful. And you can’t for a similar reason, in that the experience is itself the treatment.
NeuroCoder 3y ago
I missed that study and that is a brilliant way of blinding participants for this sort of thing.

cubefox 3y ago

Yeah, though perhaps it is the trip itself that causes the antidepressive effect, so if you prevent the trip via sleep, the effect goes away.

carlmr 3y ago
Exactly my thought. It's often reported that the antidepressant effect came from the increased ability to look at your problems from a new perspective. If this new perspective isn't experienced, it seems highly unlikely this would work. Thinking about the mechanism of classic anti-depressants like SSRIs, you expect a boosted effect of the happy chemicals to make people more happy. With anything that is few or single-dose you expect changes in thought and behavior patterns to have the antidepressant effect. These lasting changes must come from something that is not happy chemicals, but a new perspective on life.

amanaplanacanal 3y ago

It’s also possible that the conscious experience of the effect is part of what makes it work. I’m not sure how you would test that out.

zmgsabst 3y ago
I don’t think you can. But if a certain action routinely produces sustained change, that can also be fine. Eg, you can’t blind participants to whether they receive real therapy or a conversation about the weather, but we’ve concluded that therapy is useful. And you can’t for a similar reason, in that the experience is itself the treatment.

NeuroCoder 3y ago

I missed that study and that is a brilliant way of blinding participants for this sort of thing.