4 ms·

(Edit: original response was to a pithy "it's hard". Commenter added context after the fact so I am adding context to mine): No it isn't. Unless the company do

(Edit: original response was to a pithy "it's hard". Commenter added context after the fact so I am adding context to mine): No it isn't. Unless the company doing the designing isn't serious about it. Exactly of companies who are serious about inclusive design are Apple, and if you want gaming Microsoft. How are they serious? - hire people with disabilities across the board so input happens at all phases of product development - include people with disabilities during product and focus group testing - bake inclusive design as part of their process - hire people with disabilities in QA/QC So, yes it's difficult if you have one person saying "make this thing inclusive otherwise we might get sued". It's not difficult if the organization is serious about inclusive design

noitpmeder 3y ago
What are some existing examples of good hardware design that has good UX for disabled people?
- prettygood 3y ago
  Everything Microsoft did with Xbox long before Sony? If we focus purely on the console gaming market, Microsoft did a lot for disabled people. Multiple different controllers and systems were released this generation.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    It's important to remember that Microsoft has been making PC input devices and gaming peripherals (and decent ones at that) all the way back since the '90s. Microsoft gets a lot of well deserved flack, but their peripherals were almost always top notch, in line with Logitech or even better. Remember their ergonomic split keyboards form the '90s? Maybe some of that UX design heritage rubbed off to the X-box as well.
    - com2kid 3y ago
      Having briefly worked on the xbox 360 accessories team, I honestly think it is just because the people there really care. From what I (indirectly) understand, the Microsoft accessories team (keyboards, mice, etc) has been dismantled and reformed a number of times. The XB1 controller is an extra odd situation, the team who was the Xbox 360 accessories team made the initial XB1 controller, and then that team became the Microsoft Band team, and an entire different team took over console controllers.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        > I honestly think it is just because the people there really care Sure, but from my experience, for devs and engineers to "just care" about the product, they also need to be well paid, respected and empowered. Try seeing how many engineers care when they're overworked and underpaid.
        thorncorona 3y ago
        Nobody working at microsoft can really be considered underpaid. Maybe the janitor, but engs? They are paid more than enough to care.
      - muststopmyths 3y ago
        Wow the band was my favorite fitness… band. I was so sad they cancelled it
      - cma 3y ago
        The design for the 360 controller was contracted out though, right? https://techcrunch.com/2014/06/24/oculus-acquires-carbon-design-the-team-that-designed-the-xbox-360-controller/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/06/24/oculus-acquires-carbon-des...
        com2kid 3y ago
        I wasn't there for the 360 controller's design, but I'd assume MS hired external companies to assist with some of the industrial design work. The xbox org in general had a very high rate of contractor/vendor usage, I saw plenty of projects (including the one I was on) that had well over 50% of employees as vendors. The design team I worked with was also a mix of MS employees and external designers, which makes a lot of sense. I can tell you that in regards to the Xbox 1 controller, Microsoft employees spent a lot of time showing love and care to it, those buttons and control sticks got a ton of critique from people who really care about gaming. I remember one particular test session for haptic feedback settings, everyone there wanted to make damned sure that if you were driving over gravel in Forza that it felt like you were really driving over gravel. I can speak more to the Microsoft Band. The springs on the buttons were iterated on for months, with dozens upon dozens of combinations of springs and button materials being tested to find what felt just right, down to the exact shape of the indent on the button. Every single letter for the font was hand kerned. Heck the font was customized for our exact display (DPI, font weights, letter heights, everything). My team worked with Monotype to get real TrueType font rendering working in 96mhz and 256KB of RAM (and a slow 4MB scratch buffer). Real antialiasing, full CJK support, when Microsoft wants to pay attention to details they can do a really damn good job of paying attention to the details. Xbox was (is, I presume, haven't been there in a long time!) an entire technical org that was passionate from top to bottom about making the best products.
    - dghlsakjg 3y ago
      The PlayStation also dates to the 90s, years before Xbox was a thing. Sony is a tech company far older than MS that specializes in hardware and design. They invented entire categories of device with novel ux(the Walkman). If they wanted to do this earlier, they could have.
      - bozhark 3y ago
        Sony came before PlayStation. They know how to make things. Kind of.
    - bozhark 3y ago
      So has Sony.
caslon 3y ago
Respectfully, I disagree strongly with you. Apple isn't serious about inclusive design in hardware. Their software UX leads are some of the most brilliant figures in the fight for accessible computing, but their hardware is almost universally bad for accessibility. For people with sufficiently-advanced dyskinesia, even the most generous software accessibility settings aren't super helpful. It took them thirteen major releases of their operating system to offer pointer events using external hardware, broken pointer events, which was more or less the only way in which people with motor disabilities could make the system usable at all. If Apple is an example of disabled people in an organization being serious about inclusive design in a way that is "easy," then that reflects incredibly poorly on the disabled engineers and designers working at Apple and the possibilities of inclusive design as a liberating force. People at Microsoft worked hard on the Adaptive Controller. It was hard, and it took years. It is an incredible feat of empathy in engineering.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  The Apple mouse if a huge middle finger to anyone with fully functioning hands, let alone disabled.
  - billyjmc 3y ago
    You say that like there’s only one time Apple has flubbed hard with mice…
- csydas 3y ago
  i must confess i did not have a good definition of dyskinesia in my mind but reading briefly i absolutely can get why apple hardware would be awful with dyskinesia; as much as i love the apple trackpads i still sometimes get cursor jumps or accidental clicks with the touch to click option enabled; im sure there are other elements that introduce frustration also but that one i can relate to fast. i have heard high praise for apple with their accessibility settings and my colleagues and friend who use these options seem to like them, so there’s something. really hope that the hardware focus continues to get traction as just “something that should be done” not as a new revenue stream. i thjnk proper accessibility and customization serves everyone, not just those with disabilities [0]. technology should be adaptable to any given user, not the other way around. 0 - i’m actually not sure if this is right wording but my brain struggles to know the preferred term. i am happy to have a better way to describe people with disabilities

noitpmeder 3y ago

What are some existing examples of good hardware design that has good UX for disabled people?

prettygood 3y ago
Everything Microsoft did with Xbox long before Sony? If we focus purely on the console gaming market, Microsoft did a lot for disabled people. Multiple different controllers and systems were released this generation.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  It's important to remember that Microsoft has been making PC input devices and gaming peripherals (and decent ones at that) all the way back since the '90s. Microsoft gets a lot of well deserved flack, but their peripherals were almost always top notch, in line with Logitech or even better. Remember their ergonomic split keyboards form the '90s? Maybe some of that UX design heritage rubbed off to the X-box as well.
  - com2kid 3y ago
    Having briefly worked on the xbox 360 accessories team, I honestly think it is just because the people there really care. From what I (indirectly) understand, the Microsoft accessories team (keyboards, mice, etc) has been dismantled and reformed a number of times. The XB1 controller is an extra odd situation, the team who was the Xbox 360 accessories team made the initial XB1 controller, and then that team became the Microsoft Band team, and an entire different team took over console controllers.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      > I honestly think it is just because the people there really care Sure, but from my experience, for devs and engineers to "just care" about the product, they also need to be well paid, respected and empowered. Try seeing how many engineers care when they're overworked and underpaid.
      - thorncorona 3y ago
        Nobody working at microsoft can really be considered underpaid. Maybe the janitor, but engs? They are paid more than enough to care.
    - muststopmyths 3y ago
      Wow the band was my favorite fitness… band. I was so sad they cancelled it
    - cma 3y ago
      The design for the 360 controller was contracted out though, right? https://techcrunch.com/2014/06/24/oculus-acquires-carbon-design-the-team-that-designed-the-xbox-360-controller/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/06/24/oculus-acquires-carbon-des...
      - com2kid 3y ago
        I wasn't there for the 360 controller's design, but I'd assume MS hired external companies to assist with some of the industrial design work. The xbox org in general had a very high rate of contractor/vendor usage, I saw plenty of projects (including the one I was on) that had well over 50% of employees as vendors. The design team I worked with was also a mix of MS employees and external designers, which makes a lot of sense. I can tell you that in regards to the Xbox 1 controller, Microsoft employees spent a lot of time showing love and care to it, those buttons and control sticks got a ton of critique from people who really care about gaming. I remember one particular test session for haptic feedback settings, everyone there wanted to make damned sure that if you were driving over gravel in Forza that it felt like you were really driving over gravel. I can speak more to the Microsoft Band. The springs on the buttons were iterated on for months, with dozens upon dozens of combinations of springs and button materials being tested to find what felt just right, down to the exact shape of the indent on the button. Every single letter for the font was hand kerned. Heck the font was customized for our exact display (DPI, font weights, letter heights, everything). My team worked with Monotype to get real TrueType font rendering working in 96mhz and 256KB of RAM (and a slow 4MB scratch buffer). Real antialiasing, full CJK support, when Microsoft wants to pay attention to details they can do a really damn good job of paying attention to the details. Xbox was (is, I presume, haven't been there in a long time!) an entire technical org that was passionate from top to bottom about making the best products.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    The PlayStation also dates to the 90s, years before Xbox was a thing. Sony is a tech company far older than MS that specializes in hardware and design. They invented entire categories of device with novel ux(the Walkman). If they wanted to do this earlier, they could have.
    - bozhark 3y ago
      Sony came before PlayStation. They know how to make things. Kind of.
  - bozhark 3y ago
    So has Sony.

caslon 3y ago

Respectfully, I disagree strongly with you. Apple isn't serious about inclusive design in hardware. Their software UX leads are some of the most brilliant figures in the fight for accessible computing, but their hardware is almost universally bad for accessibility. For people with sufficiently-advanced dyskinesia, even the most generous software accessibility settings aren't super helpful. It took them thirteen major releases of their operating system to offer pointer events using external hardware, broken pointer events, which was more or less the only way in which people with motor disabilities could make the system usable at all. If Apple is an example of disabled people in an organization being serious about inclusive design in a way that is "easy," then that reflects incredibly poorly on the disabled engineers and designers working at Apple and the possibilities of inclusive design as a liberating force. People at Microsoft worked hard on the Adaptive Controller. It was hard, and it took years. It is an incredible feat of empathy in engineering.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
The Apple mouse if a huge middle finger to anyone with fully functioning hands, let alone disabled.
- billyjmc 3y ago
  You say that like there’s only one time Apple has flubbed hard with mice…
csydas 3y ago
i must confess i did not have a good definition of dyskinesia in my mind but reading briefly i absolutely can get why apple hardware would be awful with dyskinesia; as much as i love the apple trackpads i still sometimes get cursor jumps or accidental clicks with the touch to click option enabled; im sure there are other elements that introduce frustration also but that one i can relate to fast. i have heard high praise for apple with their accessibility settings and my colleagues and friend who use these options seem to like them, so there’s something. really hope that the hardware focus continues to get traction as just “something that should be done” not as a new revenue stream. i thjnk proper accessibility and customization serves everyone, not just those with disabilities [0]. technology should be adaptable to any given user, not the other way around. 0 - i’m actually not sure if this is right wording but my brain struggles to know the preferred term. i am happy to have a better way to describe people with disabilities