5 ms·

Better late than never, I guess

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Designing UX stuff for disabled people is surprisingly hard. There's a huge array of disabilities and non-disabled designers can't fathom the challenges by themselves so I can imagine it's a very lengthy iterative process. It was also probably never a huge priority for Sony until the X-box released their own and showed there's a market for them.
- passwordoops 3y ago
  (Edit: original response was to a pithy "it's hard". Commenter added context after the fact so I am adding context to mine): No it isn't. Unless the company doing the designing isn't serious about it. Exactly of companies who are serious about inclusive design are Apple, and if you want gaming Microsoft. How are they serious? - hire people with disabilities across the board so input happens at all phases of product development - include people with disabilities during product and focus group testing - bake inclusive design as part of their process - hire people with disabilities in QA/QC So, yes it's difficult if you have one person saying "make this thing inclusive otherwise we might get sued". It's not difficult if the organization is serious about inclusive design
  - noitpmeder 3y ago
    What are some existing examples of good hardware design that has good UX for disabled people?
    - prettygood 3y ago
      Everything Microsoft did with Xbox long before Sony? If we focus purely on the console gaming market, Microsoft did a lot for disabled people. Multiple different controllers and systems were released this generation.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        It's important to remember that Microsoft has been making PC input devices and gaming peripherals (and decent ones at that) all the way back since the '90s. Microsoft gets a lot of well deserved flack, but their peripherals were almost always top notch, in line with Logitech or even better. Remember their ergonomic split keyboards form the '90s? Maybe some of that UX design heritage rubbed off to the X-box as well.
        com2kid 3y ago
        Having briefly worked on the xbox 360 accessories team, I honestly think it is just because the people there really care. From what I (indirectly) understand, the Microsoft accessories team (keyboards, mice, etc) has been dismantled and reformed a number of times. The XB1 controller is an extra odd situation, the team who was the Xbox 360 accessories team made the initial XB1 controller, and then that team became the Microsoft Band team, and an entire different team took over console controllers.
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        > I honestly think it is just because the people there really care Sure, but from my experience, for devs and engineers to "just care" about the product, they also need to be well paid, respected and empowered. Try seeing how many engineers care when they're overworked and underpaid.
        thorncorona 3y ago
        Nobody working at microsoft can really be considered underpaid. Maybe the janitor, but engs? They are paid more than enough to care.
        muststopmyths 3y ago
        Wow the band was my favorite fitness… band. I was so sad they cancelled it
        3y ago
  - caslon 3y ago
    Respectfully, I disagree strongly with you. Apple isn't serious about inclusive design in hardware. Their software UX leads are some of the most brilliant figures in the fight for accessible computing, but their hardware is almost universally bad for accessibility. For people with sufficiently-advanced dyskinesia, even the most generous software accessibility settings aren't super helpful. It took them thirteen major releases of their operating system to offer pointer events using external hardware, broken pointer events, which was more or less the only way in which people with motor disabilities could make the system usable at all. If Apple is an example of disabled people in an organization being serious about inclusive design in a way that is "easy," then that reflects incredibly poorly on the disabled engineers and designers working at Apple and the possibilities of inclusive design as a liberating force. People at Microsoft worked hard on the Adaptive Controller. It was hard, and it took years. It is an incredible feat of empathy in engineering.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      The Apple mouse if a huge middle finger to anyone with fully functioning hands, let alone disabled.
      - billyjmc 3y ago
        You say that like there’s only one time Apple has flubbed hard with mice…
    - csydas 3y ago
      i must confess i did not have a good definition of dyskinesia in my mind but reading briefly i absolutely can get why apple hardware would be awful with dyskinesia; as much as i love the apple trackpads i still sometimes get cursor jumps or accidental clicks with the touch to click option enabled; im sure there are other elements that introduce frustration also but that one i can relate to fast. i have heard high praise for apple with their accessibility settings and my colleagues and friend who use these options seem to like them, so there’s something. really hope that the hardware focus continues to get traction as just “something that should be done” not as a new revenue stream. i thjnk proper accessibility and customization serves everyone, not just those with disabilities [0]. technology should be adaptable to any given user, not the other way around. 0 - i’m actually not sure if this is right wording but my brain struggles to know the preferred term. i am happy to have a better way to describe people with disabilities
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  ＞ I can imagine it's a very lengthy iterative process Yes. I think that's where it really matters to have something out in the world, even if it doesn't cover the full spectrum, so they get feedback on what sticks and what doesn't. Sure they can make the round of disabled people in their vicinity, and get some help for those wanting to engage with the dev process, but that can't be comparable to real world users actually getting their hands on a product. On Sony's priorities, they've made so much research on input I hope they find a way to merge the two and have the feedback from one side help the development of the other "traditional" methods. Some games had custom controllers basically purpose built, so they're not strangers to doing stuff that doesn't scale that much either.
ycombinatrix 3y ago
it also appears to be inferior to the xbox controller despite releasing 5 years later
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Designing UX stuff for disabled people is surprisingly hard. There's a huge array of disabilities and non-disabled designers can't fathom the challenges by themselves so I can imagine it's a very lengthy iterative process. It was also probably never a huge priority for Sony until the X-box released their own and showed there's a market for them.

passwordoops 3y ago
(Edit: original response was to a pithy "it's hard". Commenter added context after the fact so I am adding context to mine): No it isn't. Unless the company doing the designing isn't serious about it. Exactly of companies who are serious about inclusive design are Apple, and if you want gaming Microsoft. How are they serious? - hire people with disabilities across the board so input happens at all phases of product development - include people with disabilities during product and focus group testing - bake inclusive design as part of their process - hire people with disabilities in QA/QC So, yes it's difficult if you have one person saying "make this thing inclusive otherwise we might get sued". It's not difficult if the organization is serious about inclusive design
- noitpmeder 3y ago
  What are some existing examples of good hardware design that has good UX for disabled people?
  - prettygood 3y ago
    Everything Microsoft did with Xbox long before Sony? If we focus purely on the console gaming market, Microsoft did a lot for disabled people. Multiple different controllers and systems were released this generation.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      It's important to remember that Microsoft has been making PC input devices and gaming peripherals (and decent ones at that) all the way back since the '90s. Microsoft gets a lot of well deserved flack, but their peripherals were almost always top notch, in line with Logitech or even better. Remember their ergonomic split keyboards form the '90s? Maybe some of that UX design heritage rubbed off to the X-box as well.
      - com2kid 3y ago
        Having briefly worked on the xbox 360 accessories team, I honestly think it is just because the people there really care. From what I (indirectly) understand, the Microsoft accessories team (keyboards, mice, etc) has been dismantled and reformed a number of times. The XB1 controller is an extra odd situation, the team who was the Xbox 360 accessories team made the initial XB1 controller, and then that team became the Microsoft Band team, and an entire different team took over console controllers.
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        > I honestly think it is just because the people there really care Sure, but from my experience, for devs and engineers to "just care" about the product, they also need to be well paid, respected and empowered. Try seeing how many engineers care when they're overworked and underpaid.
        thorncorona 3y ago
        Nobody working at microsoft can really be considered underpaid. Maybe the janitor, but engs? They are paid more than enough to care.
        muststopmyths 3y ago
        Wow the band was my favorite fitness… band. I was so sad they cancelled it
        3y ago
- caslon 3y ago
  Respectfully, I disagree strongly with you. Apple isn't serious about inclusive design in hardware. Their software UX leads are some of the most brilliant figures in the fight for accessible computing, but their hardware is almost universally bad for accessibility. For people with sufficiently-advanced dyskinesia, even the most generous software accessibility settings aren't super helpful. It took them thirteen major releases of their operating system to offer pointer events using external hardware, broken pointer events, which was more or less the only way in which people with motor disabilities could make the system usable at all. If Apple is an example of disabled people in an organization being serious about inclusive design in a way that is "easy," then that reflects incredibly poorly on the disabled engineers and designers working at Apple and the possibilities of inclusive design as a liberating force. People at Microsoft worked hard on the Adaptive Controller. It was hard, and it took years. It is an incredible feat of empathy in engineering.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    The Apple mouse if a huge middle finger to anyone with fully functioning hands, let alone disabled.
    - billyjmc 3y ago
      You say that like there’s only one time Apple has flubbed hard with mice…
  - csydas 3y ago
    i must confess i did not have a good definition of dyskinesia in my mind but reading briefly i absolutely can get why apple hardware would be awful with dyskinesia; as much as i love the apple trackpads i still sometimes get cursor jumps or accidental clicks with the touch to click option enabled; im sure there are other elements that introduce frustration also but that one i can relate to fast. i have heard high praise for apple with their accessibility settings and my colleagues and friend who use these options seem to like them, so there’s something. really hope that the hardware focus continues to get traction as just “something that should be done” not as a new revenue stream. i thjnk proper accessibility and customization serves everyone, not just those with disabilities [0]. technology should be adaptable to any given user, not the other way around. 0 - i’m actually not sure if this is right wording but my brain struggles to know the preferred term. i am happy to have a better way to describe people with disabilities
makeitdouble 3y ago
＞ I can imagine it's a very lengthy iterative process Yes. I think that's where it really matters to have something out in the world, even if it doesn't cover the full spectrum, so they get feedback on what sticks and what doesn't. Sure they can make the round of disabled people in their vicinity, and get some help for those wanting to engage with the dev process, but that can't be comparable to real world users actually getting their hands on a product. On Sony's priorities, they've made so much research on input I hope they find a way to merge the two and have the feedback from one side help the development of the other "traditional" methods. Some games had custom controllers basically purpose built, so they're not strangers to doing stuff that doesn't scale that much either.

ycombinatrix 3y ago

it also appears to be inferior to the xbox controller despite releasing 5 years later

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]