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This is a problem that is meant to be solved by distros. People who don't want many choices should be using a distro that makes a bunch of choices for them, ins

This is a problem that is meant to be solved by distros. People who don't want many choices should be using a distro that makes a bunch of choices for them, instead of pushing to remove choice from the ecosysytem altogether. Everybody using the same software creates a monoculture which is more prone to attack than a diverse ecosystem. There's a reason Windows was targeted so much by viruses: not only was the target BIG, but it was also consistent. If you broke into one normie's Windows machine, you could probably break into the rest. You're going to have a harder time of that if you target Linux. Also, it's libre software. Unless you pay someone to do something for you, most of it is volunteer activity. And who are we to tell someone what they should do with their volunteer time? It's also an indictment of the dominant social structures if there are all these groups and nobody wants to join them. They could start by getting rid of Codes of Conduct that give them permission to punish you for out-of-project behavior. Try that.

deafpolygon 3y ago
> People who don't want many choices should be using a distro that makes a bunch of choices for them, instead of pushing to remove choice from the ecosystem altogether. You don't need to remove choice to push better UX and software. It's not a zero-sum game here; we can foster better conversations with people in the Linux community and start talking about what would make the experience better for the average user, not just technically proficient power-users. > Everybody using the same software creates a monoculture which is more prone to attack than a diverse ecosystem. That's wrong - you're using a sort of strawman argument. What makes Windows a monoculture? There's a much larger, thriving developer community on that platform with many more developers making free and/or open-source software. > You're going to have a harder time of that if you target Linux. "Achkshully..." Linux has had some serious bugs, but the damage was relatively low to end users because of it's low adoption rates. It has very little to do with "Linux is more secure because we're diverse" and everything to do with "1% of end users use Linux, so the target is less likely to be worth my time." And furthermore, that 1% - the majority will be more technically proficient and less likely to be tricked into running arbitrary software. > one normie's Windows machine This. Is. The. Problem. Framing an end-user as a mentally deficient 'normie'. Why? What's the point and what's to be gained from this? > And who are we to tell someone what they should do with their volunteer time? No one is suggesting we tell hobbyists / volunteers what to do with their time. What people are suggesting is that we spend a little time talking about tackling common problems together, rather than re-inventing the wheel every single time.
- zlg_codes 3y ago
  It's how the Bazaar model of development works. You're free to join a Cathedral and follow their policies if you want.
- zlg_codes 3y ago
  Missed a few things, my bad. > This. Is. The. Problem. Framing an end-user as a mentally deficient 'normie'. Why? What's the point and what's to be gained from this? Most end-users are, okay? If anything unusual happens at the computer they come running for the nearest nerd, poorly explain the problem, waste the nerd's time when it turns out it was simple, and the most important part, they don't learn from the experience. It also serves as a useful distinction between types of users. Normies browse the web, maybe use an e-mail client, some office software, maybe Steam or Zoom, etc. Power users want to explore the fullest capabilities of their computer. They're going to want different software and different experiences from the normies. Developers will want to explore how much they can do and control. That's another type of user with different needs and software preferences. Frankly, I'm not interested in talking about the needs of average users, because more average users will cause communities to believe their software doesn't need advanced features because there are greater numbers of simple users. Flooding Linux with normies won't make the software any better. It will create an Eternal September problem where you'll get loads of criticism and bug reports and problems, but almost nobody from that crowd will have the insight necessary to help devs decide on solutions. There really isn't any third option. Everyman software ends up toddler-fied, and bespoke software overloads the normies. Both groups cannot be served by the same software. I challenge you to find any piece of software that adequately serves both groups.

deafpolygon 3y ago

> People who don't want many choices should be using a distro that makes a bunch of choices for them, instead of pushing to remove choice from the ecosystem altogether. You don't need to remove choice to push better UX and software. It's not a zero-sum game here; we can foster better conversations with people in the Linux community and start talking about what would make the experience better for the average user, not just technically proficient power-users. > Everybody using the same software creates a monoculture which is more prone to attack than a diverse ecosystem. That's wrong - you're using a sort of strawman argument. What makes Windows a monoculture? There's a much larger, thriving developer community on that platform with many more developers making free and/or open-source software. > You're going to have a harder time of that if you target Linux. "Achkshully..." Linux has had some serious bugs, but the damage was relatively low to end users because of it's low adoption rates. It has very little to do with "Linux is more secure because we're diverse" and everything to do with "1% of end users use Linux, so the target is less likely to be worth my time." And furthermore, that 1% - the majority will be more technically proficient and less likely to be tricked into running arbitrary software. > one normie's Windows machine This. Is. The. Problem. Framing an end-user as a mentally deficient 'normie'. Why? What's the point and what's to be gained from this? > And who are we to tell someone what they should do with their volunteer time? No one is suggesting we tell hobbyists / volunteers what to do with their time. What people are suggesting is that we spend a little time talking about tackling common problems together, rather than re-inventing the wheel every single time.

zlg_codes 3y ago
It's how the Bazaar model of development works. You're free to join a Cathedral and follow their policies if you want.
zlg_codes 3y ago
Missed a few things, my bad. > This. Is. The. Problem. Framing an end-user as a mentally deficient 'normie'. Why? What's the point and what's to be gained from this? Most end-users are, okay? If anything unusual happens at the computer they come running for the nearest nerd, poorly explain the problem, waste the nerd's time when it turns out it was simple, and the most important part, they don't learn from the experience. It also serves as a useful distinction between types of users. Normies browse the web, maybe use an e-mail client, some office software, maybe Steam or Zoom, etc. Power users want to explore the fullest capabilities of their computer. They're going to want different software and different experiences from the normies. Developers will want to explore how much they can do and control. That's another type of user with different needs and software preferences. Frankly, I'm not interested in talking about the needs of average users, because more average users will cause communities to believe their software doesn't need advanced features because there are greater numbers of simple users. Flooding Linux with normies won't make the software any better. It will create an Eternal September problem where you'll get loads of criticism and bug reports and problems, but almost nobody from that crowd will have the insight necessary to help devs decide on solutions. There really isn't any third option. Everyman software ends up toddler-fied, and bespoke software overloads the normies. Both groups cannot be served by the same software. I challenge you to find any piece of software that adequately serves both groups.