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>This is too simplistic, almost childish. Neither the US or Russia are that simple. This is what Russians claim when you talk with them and not when only readi

>This is too simplistic, almost childish. Neither the US or Russia are that simple. This is what Russians claim when you talk with them and not when only reading their propaganda, Russians feel that USA is doing too much bad stuff and they want to do the same. All Eastern Europe entered NATO, countries that were part of USS or neighboring USSR, Bulgaria that was friendly to Russia, if you would really think then consider why this countries wanted protection from Russia, do the people in this countries are brainwashed by CIA or they know Russia better then a guy from far away or a Russian? Russia has no legal or moral right to impose a country not to enter EU or NATO, no "what about USA" can justify this or convince eastern Europe.

xcv123 3y ago
> Russia has no legal or moral right This is not about rights or whataboutism. This is about a government and society that believes there is an existential threat to its existence. I am just understanding things rationally, using critical thinking. I am not American or Russian or European. I live far away from these places.
- nulld3v 3y ago
  Ah yes, just like the Americans thought that Al Qaeda was an "existential threat" to the US. Sure, it makes sense, and it's their motive. But a motive doesn't justify a crime.
  - xcv123 3y ago
    Yes. However, the difference being that there was a 2014 revolution in Ukraine, and Ukraine did subsequently become aligned with the US, and the US is extremely aggressive toward its enemies and has been inciting anti-Russia hatred for many years. That border along Ukraine/Russia is a major existential risk. Russia will be at a severe military disadvantage if they lose that buffer. Ukraine should have remained a neutral buffer state. I believe the US agencies have provoked Russia to invade, and this outcome was intended or at least expected.
    - nulld3v 3y ago
      I mean yeah, let's assume Russia believed really hard in globalism. The problem is if that's the case, Russia suddenly has many many more problems. They justified the invasion by claiming it will better the security situation of Russia. Now that the invasion has started, is the security situation of Russia any better? Ok, maybe the invasion didn't improve the security situation, but it would have if the West didn't meddle. They seem to have forgotten however, that the West has always been meddling in Ukraine, they literally had troops there previously. And also since Ukraine was US-aligned, wouldn't it make sense that the US would help them? But let's even assume the invasion went 100% to plan and Ukraine got completely annexed! Would the security situation of Russia be improved? NO, it would not! - Literally everybody in Europe would suddenly hate Russia - Neutral countries would no longer be neutral to Russia (as demonstrated recently) - The region is destabilized. No one was previously thinking of starting wars in Europe, now war is top of mind. - What does the "land buffer" even get them? No one would dare perform a ground invasion of Russia cause they have nukes! - If the nukes were gone, the "land buffer" would be inconsequential to the US army. The Russians somehow don't have air superiority even when Ukraine doesn't have an air force. They would be bombed out of key positions immediately with air and artillery power should the west invade. The "neutral buffer state" is a pipe-dream. One that is not actually a terrible idea (it's not a good idea mind you), but entirely unachievable.
      - xcv123 3y ago
        Your reply is well thought out. The fact is that Ukraine was being turned against Russia. This was unacceptable to them and considered an existential risk, whether by direct or indirect force, by military or political/cultural subversion. This is evidenced by the huge risk and sacrifices that Russia has accepted with this course of action. They warned that this would happen as a consequence, for many years.
        mopsi 3y ago
        > The fact is that Ukraine was being turned against Russia. Funny. I thought it was the invasion in 2014 and the crimes against humanity committed by invading Russians that soured relations between Ukraine and Russia. Are Americans at fault for rising anti-German tensions in Poland back in 1939 too?

xcv123 3y ago

> Russia has no legal or moral right This is not about rights or whataboutism. This is about a government and society that believes there is an existential threat to its existence. I am just understanding things rationally, using critical thinking. I am not American or Russian or European. I live far away from these places.

nulld3v 3y ago
Ah yes, just like the Americans thought that Al Qaeda was an "existential threat" to the US. Sure, it makes sense, and it's their motive. But a motive doesn't justify a crime.
- xcv123 3y ago
  Yes. However, the difference being that there was a 2014 revolution in Ukraine, and Ukraine did subsequently become aligned with the US, and the US is extremely aggressive toward its enemies and has been inciting anti-Russia hatred for many years. That border along Ukraine/Russia is a major existential risk. Russia will be at a severe military disadvantage if they lose that buffer. Ukraine should have remained a neutral buffer state. I believe the US agencies have provoked Russia to invade, and this outcome was intended or at least expected.
  - nulld3v 3y ago
    I mean yeah, let's assume Russia believed really hard in globalism. The problem is if that's the case, Russia suddenly has many many more problems. They justified the invasion by claiming it will better the security situation of Russia. Now that the invasion has started, is the security situation of Russia any better? Ok, maybe the invasion didn't improve the security situation, but it would have if the West didn't meddle. They seem to have forgotten however, that the West has always been meddling in Ukraine, they literally had troops there previously. And also since Ukraine was US-aligned, wouldn't it make sense that the US would help them? But let's even assume the invasion went 100% to plan and Ukraine got completely annexed! Would the security situation of Russia be improved? NO, it would not! - Literally everybody in Europe would suddenly hate Russia - Neutral countries would no longer be neutral to Russia (as demonstrated recently) - The region is destabilized. No one was previously thinking of starting wars in Europe, now war is top of mind. - What does the "land buffer" even get them? No one would dare perform a ground invasion of Russia cause they have nukes! - If the nukes were gone, the "land buffer" would be inconsequential to the US army. The Russians somehow don't have air superiority even when Ukraine doesn't have an air force. They would be bombed out of key positions immediately with air and artillery power should the west invade. The "neutral buffer state" is a pipe-dream. One that is not actually a terrible idea (it's not a good idea mind you), but entirely unachievable.
    - xcv123 3y ago
      Your reply is well thought out. The fact is that Ukraine was being turned against Russia. This was unacceptable to them and considered an existential risk, whether by direct or indirect force, by military or political/cultural subversion. This is evidenced by the huge risk and sacrifices that Russia has accepted with this course of action. They warned that this would happen as a consequence, for many years.
      - mopsi 3y ago
        > The fact is that Ukraine was being turned against Russia. Funny. I thought it was the invasion in 2014 and the crimes against humanity committed by invading Russians that soured relations between Ukraine and Russia. Are Americans at fault for rising anti-German tensions in Poland back in 1939 too?