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The only thing I really disagreed with was the notion that 501 developers aren't necessarily good developers. I've worked with some folks who belied that argum

by bmelton 15y ago

The only thing I really disagreed with was the notion that 501 developers aren't necessarily good developers. I've worked with some folks who belied that argument. Good, solid work, but no more than 8 hours of it. In all fairness, this usually (though not always) was the result of having been exploited. They were great developers working 18 hours a day, 6+ days a week, until they came in and quit. Realizing how necessary they were, the employers were able to strike a deal that kept them. Usually the only complaint were the work hours. Employers give them a gentler schedule and they stay, still producing good code. I get the motivations for the 501 guys, and will freely admit there were places I worked where I wasn't happy, and that unhappiness expressed itself as a nonchalant attitude toward the work. Of course, once I realized it, I made it a priority to get out; to get myself somewhere I could enjoy the work, and to get my employer the opportunity to get somebody in place of me that might enjoy the work they were doing. I didn't feel it was fair to either party for me to be that guy, and sadly, the work itself was exhilarating, it was a variety of factors within the team that made the job unenjoyable. I miss the work. :'(

robomartin 15y ago
> The only thing I really disagreed with was the notion that 501 developers aren't necessarily good developers. I don't think I said that. If I implied it, I'm sorry, I should have used more precise language as this is not what I believe. My comment about writing good code had to do with their manifesto. They obviously go into a lot of the reasons why they want to work 9 to 5 but fail to also commit to doing a solid eight hours of work and producing good code during that time. You can work eight hours and produce absolutely nothing or far less than you could/should. So, if you are going to work eight hours and code for eight hours --no youtube, no facebook, no HN, no anything outside of what you are supposed to be doing-- then, that might be OK. In other words, like brick layer lays builds a wall or a Walmart employee attends to the cash register. If you want flexibility than you are not a 501'er.
- bmelton 15y ago
  Ah -- my apologies for putting words in your mouth. I'd say that's a fair and accurate statement all around. If, as an employer, I can't count on you, as an employee to be flexible, then I'm certainly going to be less tolerant of the miscellany (like HN, youtube, etc.) than I would be if I knew you were more likely to get things done. Of course, if my guys can put in only 8 hours and still meet all tasks assigned while surfing porn and youtube all day, I'm almost certainly going to look the other way.

by bmelton 15y ago

robomartin 15y ago

> The only thing I really disagreed with was the notion that 501 developers aren't necessarily good developers. I don't think I said that. If I implied it, I'm sorry, I should have used more precise language as this is not what I believe. My comment about writing good code had to do with their manifesto. They obviously go into a lot of the reasons why they want to work 9 to 5 but fail to also commit to doing a solid eight hours of work and producing good code during that time. You can work eight hours and produce absolutely nothing or far less than you could/should. So, if you are going to work eight hours and code for eight hours --no youtube, no facebook, no HN, no anything outside of what you are supposed to be doing-- then, that might be OK. In other words, like brick layer lays builds a wall or a Walmart employee attends to the cash register. If you want flexibility than you are not a 501'er.

bmelton 15y ago
Ah -- my apologies for putting words in your mouth. I'd say that's a fair and accurate statement all around. If, as an employer, I can't count on you, as an employee to be flexible, then I'm certainly going to be less tolerant of the miscellany (like HN, youtube, etc.) than I would be if I knew you were more likely to get things done. Of course, if my guys can put in only 8 hours and still meet all tasks assigned while surfing porn and youtube all day, I'm almost certainly going to look the other way.