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If by “market power” you mean a desire to invade Taiwan, debt-trap diplomacy, the open pursuit of totalitarian norms replacing Western ones globally, and territ

by biztos 3y ago

If by “market power” you mean a desire to invade Taiwan, debt-trap diplomacy, the open pursuit of totalitarian norms replacing Western ones globally, and territorial acquisitiveness in opposition to international law (just to name a few things) then yeah, sure, that’s what it is. But even then, if you want a partner who is close to China but not beholden to China, and for historical reasons will probably never be, then Vietnam is a great choice. Is there any evidence that Vietnam would be as belligerent as China, were it only a little richer?

modernpink 3y ago
China is the greatest civilisational threat to the West we have seen since Persia or the Umayyad Caliphate. The fact that the West has allowed letting China grow as much as it has done will be seen as one of the most fatal mistakes in grand strategy in history. That strategy had a purpose for defeating the Soviet Union, but after it had collapsed China had served its purpose for us and should have been isolated by the international community again.
- user_named 3y ago
  "allowed" found the murican
yieldcrv 3y ago
Okay, sure, I dont see these aspects of the PRC the same way you do. Taiwan hasn't always been the little democracy victim. They were quite totalitarian until like a couple decades ago. They have a competing claim to the shape of China that makes a mockery of the entire nation state concept. Its fun to imagine a democracy version of China, but a lot of the border disputes would be the same, the status of tibet would still be the same, and so on. Its the same people, they just lost. Its very similar to the story of the Hunger Games and realizing the liberated 13th district was the same as the status quo. Once we get stateside semiconductors this stops being our problem. Next, debt-traps. The IMF and World bank do the same, I cant create a separate higher standard for China. These approaches are far superior to colonialism by force, which is an inferior model that the west/US also does. The US’ colonialism currently undermines its own national security by its approach to the middle east. China’s approach completely exempts it from Jihad and allows it trade and growth. Sorry, cant take the US perspective on this one. Totalitarian norms: I disagree about China’s expansionist ambitions. I think this is once again projection from the west. China’s norm extension occurs when interacting with China, so if you want movies there you have to change the movies, and they monitor their citizens and students around the world. Their business, I wouldnt want to grow up in that environment but its their business. But everything you wrote reads like projection. Its not just about how hypocritical the west is, our main disagreement is in the scope of China’s political aims. I think culturally they are quite contained, they want a unified China and enhanced trade, thats it. This will be at the expense of Taiwan and fishing zones, and thats it. Countries might even do trade in their currency, omg oh noes.

by biztos 3y ago

modernpink 3y ago

China is the greatest civilisational threat to the West we have seen since Persia or the Umayyad Caliphate. The fact that the West has allowed letting China grow as much as it has done will be seen as one of the most fatal mistakes in grand strategy in history. That strategy had a purpose for defeating the Soviet Union, but after it had collapsed China had served its purpose for us and should have been isolated by the international community again.

user_named 3y ago
"allowed" found the murican

yieldcrv 3y ago

Okay, sure, I dont see these aspects of the PRC the same way you do. Taiwan hasn't always been the little democracy victim. They were quite totalitarian until like a couple decades ago. They have a competing claim to the shape of China that makes a mockery of the entire nation state concept. Its fun to imagine a democracy version of China, but a lot of the border disputes would be the same, the status of tibet would still be the same, and so on. Its the same people, they just lost. Its very similar to the story of the Hunger Games and realizing the liberated 13th district was the same as the status quo. Once we get stateside semiconductors this stops being our problem. Next, debt-traps. The IMF and World bank do the same, I cant create a separate higher standard for China. These approaches are far superior to colonialism by force, which is an inferior model that the west/US also does. The US’ colonialism currently undermines its own national security by its approach to the middle east. China’s approach completely exempts it from Jihad and allows it trade and growth. Sorry, cant take the US perspective on this one. Totalitarian norms: I disagree about China’s expansionist ambitions. I think this is once again projection from the west. China’s norm extension occurs when interacting with China, so if you want movies there you have to change the movies, and they monitor their citizens and students around the world. Their business, I wouldnt want to grow up in that environment but its their business. But everything you wrote reads like projection. Its not just about how hypocritical the west is, our main disagreement is in the scope of China’s political aims. I think culturally they are quite contained, they want a unified China and enhanced trade, thats it. This will be at the expense of Taiwan and fishing zones, and thats it. Countries might even do trade in their currency, omg oh noes.