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Seems naive to me. For one, countries have committed suicide before. And Putin has repeatedly claimed that Ukraine is not a real country, that it's a part of hi

Seems naive to me. For one, countries have committed suicide before. And Putin has repeatedly claimed that Ukraine is not a real country, that it's a part of his country lured away by the West. I'm pretty sure his ideal scenario is for Ukraine to return to Russia and the countries of the Warsaw Pact to return under Russia's sphere of influence. Remember, Austria used to be the buffer state in those days.

xcv123 3y ago
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- simion314 3y ago
  This is Kremlin propaganda, from their perspective all eastern European countries are brainwashed by CIA to want in EU and NATO, most Russian actually believe that is not possible that their neighbors actually dislike Russia and want in EU. I can confirm to you that Russia is heavily working on preventing Moldova to enter EU and this is not an existential problem from Russia, they just want to extend their sphere of influence back in eastern Europe because they believe Russia is a super power like USA and they demand their right as a super power to get East Europe back.
  - xcv123 3y ago
    US invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc, is an historical reality. Not Kremlin propaganda. I am just observing and thinking independently. Ukraine obviously became aligned with the US/NATO side before Russia invaded. > they just want to extend their sphere of influence back in eastern Europe because they believe Russia is a super power like USA and they demand their right as a super power to get East Europe back. This is too simplistic, almost childish. Neither the US or Russia are that simple.
    - simion314 3y ago
      >This is too simplistic, almost childish. Neither the US or Russia are that simple. This is what Russians claim when you talk with them and not when only reading their propaganda, Russians feel that USA is doing too much bad stuff and they want to do the same. All Eastern Europe entered NATO, countries that were part of USS or neighboring USSR, Bulgaria that was friendly to Russia, if you would really think then consider why this countries wanted protection from Russia, do the people in this countries are brainwashed by CIA or they know Russia better then a guy from far away or a Russian? Russia has no legal or moral right to impose a country not to enter EU or NATO, no "what about USA" can justify this or convince eastern Europe.
      - xcv123 3y ago
        > Russia has no legal or moral right This is not about rights or whataboutism. This is about a government and society that believes there is an existential threat to its existence. I am just understanding things rationally, using critical thinking. I am not American or Russian or European. I live far away from these places.
        nulld3v 3y ago
        Ah yes, just like the Americans thought that Al Qaeda was an "existential threat" to the US. Sure, it makes sense, and it's their motive. But a motive doesn't justify a crime.
        xcv123 3y ago
        Yes. However, the difference being that there was a 2014 revolution in Ukraine, and Ukraine did subsequently become aligned with the US, and the US is extremely aggressive toward its enemies and has been inciting anti-Russia hatred for many years. That border along Ukraine/Russia is a major existential risk. Russia will be at a severe military disadvantage if they lose that buffer. Ukraine should have remained a neutral buffer state. I believe the US agencies have provoked Russia to invade, and this outcome was intended or at least expected.
- falserum 3y ago
  > The US helped to overthrow the Ukraine Really? Ukraine was on the track to go direction “europe”, When president suddenly did sudden 180 degree turn, back to russian empire/soviet union/mongol hoards. Young people saw that their west Europe future was switched to eternal post-soviet. Even if US helped, it probably was tea, printers for leaflets and hopefully intelligence when soviet omon will strike. Edit: i don’t like US actions in vietnam cambodia iraq cuba south america (list goes on..). Power corrupts. But that does not and should not impact evaluation of Russia actions and implications. Both can be bad. (For my country far lesser evil is US) For some reason lavrov always says, “but US also did that something”, as if that makes it ok..
  - xcv123 3y ago
    Your timeline is messed up here. Poroshenko was the guy who signed the EU deal in 2014, immediately after the revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Ukraine_Association_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Ukraine... > Really? Yes, the 2014 Ukrainian Revolution. The CIA is involved in these things. That's their job. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... > as if that makes it ok That's not my argument. I believe Russia was intentionally provoked into this war, and this outcome is what the US agencies intended.
    - hkpack 3y ago
      > Poroshenko was the guy who signed the EU deal in 2014, immediately after the revolution. It was prepared, negotiated and ready to be signed before 2013 by previous president. The fact that he refused to do so in last minute was what started the peaceful protests by students. The beating of protesting students by militia caused the following events.
      - xcv123 3y ago
        Yes everything that followed was entirely without US agency support. How convenient.

xcv123 3y ago

[flagged]

simion314 3y ago
This is Kremlin propaganda, from their perspective all eastern European countries are brainwashed by CIA to want in EU and NATO, most Russian actually believe that is not possible that their neighbors actually dislike Russia and want in EU. I can confirm to you that Russia is heavily working on preventing Moldova to enter EU and this is not an existential problem from Russia, they just want to extend their sphere of influence back in eastern Europe because they believe Russia is a super power like USA and they demand their right as a super power to get East Europe back.
- xcv123 3y ago
  US invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc, is an historical reality. Not Kremlin propaganda. I am just observing and thinking independently. Ukraine obviously became aligned with the US/NATO side before Russia invaded. > they just want to extend their sphere of influence back in eastern Europe because they believe Russia is a super power like USA and they demand their right as a super power to get East Europe back. This is too simplistic, almost childish. Neither the US or Russia are that simple.
  - simion314 3y ago
    >This is too simplistic, almost childish. Neither the US or Russia are that simple. This is what Russians claim when you talk with them and not when only reading their propaganda, Russians feel that USA is doing too much bad stuff and they want to do the same. All Eastern Europe entered NATO, countries that were part of USS or neighboring USSR, Bulgaria that was friendly to Russia, if you would really think then consider why this countries wanted protection from Russia, do the people in this countries are brainwashed by CIA or they know Russia better then a guy from far away or a Russian? Russia has no legal or moral right to impose a country not to enter EU or NATO, no "what about USA" can justify this or convince eastern Europe.
    - xcv123 3y ago
      > Russia has no legal or moral right This is not about rights or whataboutism. This is about a government and society that believes there is an existential threat to its existence. I am just understanding things rationally, using critical thinking. I am not American or Russian or European. I live far away from these places.
      - nulld3v 3y ago
        Ah yes, just like the Americans thought that Al Qaeda was an "existential threat" to the US. Sure, it makes sense, and it's their motive. But a motive doesn't justify a crime.
        xcv123 3y ago
        Yes. However, the difference being that there was a 2014 revolution in Ukraine, and Ukraine did subsequently become aligned with the US, and the US is extremely aggressive toward its enemies and has been inciting anti-Russia hatred for many years. That border along Ukraine/Russia is a major existential risk. Russia will be at a severe military disadvantage if they lose that buffer. Ukraine should have remained a neutral buffer state. I believe the US agencies have provoked Russia to invade, and this outcome was intended or at least expected.
falserum 3y ago
> The US helped to overthrow the Ukraine Really? Ukraine was on the track to go direction “europe”, When president suddenly did sudden 180 degree turn, back to russian empire/soviet union/mongol hoards. Young people saw that their west Europe future was switched to eternal post-soviet. Even if US helped, it probably was tea, printers for leaflets and hopefully intelligence when soviet omon will strike. Edit: i don’t like US actions in vietnam cambodia iraq cuba south america (list goes on..). Power corrupts. But that does not and should not impact evaluation of Russia actions and implications. Both can be bad. (For my country far lesser evil is US) For some reason lavrov always says, “but US also did that something”, as if that makes it ok..
- xcv123 3y ago
  Your timeline is messed up here. Poroshenko was the guy who signed the EU deal in 2014, immediately after the revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Ukraine_Association_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Ukraine... > Really? Yes, the 2014 Ukrainian Revolution. The CIA is involved in these things. That's their job. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... > as if that makes it ok That's not my argument. I believe Russia was intentionally provoked into this war, and this outcome is what the US agencies intended.
  - hkpack 3y ago
    > Poroshenko was the guy who signed the EU deal in 2014, immediately after the revolution. It was prepared, negotiated and ready to be signed before 2013 by previous president. The fact that he refused to do so in last minute was what started the peaceful protests by students. The beating of protesting students by militia caused the following events.
    - xcv123 3y ago
      Yes everything that followed was entirely without US agency support. How convenient.