4 ms·

As someone that does mostly city driving and is the perfect use case for an EV, I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. The man

by tapoxi 3y ago

As someone that does mostly city driving and is the perfect use case for an EV, I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. The man has done significant damage to the brand. That and I really hate the lack of tactile buttons in those cars, and their love for a clearly unsafe "full self driving" solution

TMWNN 3y ago
>As someone that does mostly city driving and is the perfect use case for an EV, I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. I saw a good description (on /r/4chan, no less) of you: People who constantly check in on each other to see what the latest things are to embrace/avoid. What a miserable way to live.
Racing0461 3y ago
> hate the lack of tactile buttons in those cars This is one thing these new generation of "ipad only" cars gets completely wrong. We should be building these interfaces the same way NASA built the mars rover instead of building them like another left-pad nodejs electron app. The feedback should be immediate without lag like an actual button. I however don't really need it to be tactile.
jnsaff2 3y ago
While I can understand your first and last points the tactile button thing is not a thing. For the important things there are tactile buttons, the rest works really well in practice. To the point where I now feel a bit attacked by sea of buttons when I get into a modern non-Tesla.
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  The model Y I got into had essentially no buttons. I appreciate the minimalism, but would prefer some basic button. The flip side is most functions are on 2 levels deep in the UI. Makes it very easy to navigate.
  - jnsaff2 3y ago
    I don't get it. There are dedicated tactile buttons for: - wipers - turning signals - high-low beams - cruise control (with distance modifications and speed change) - media, volume, play/pause, prev/next - drive selection - power window controls for all windows - hazard lights - dome/reading lights On touchscreen: - cabin temperature is always visible and in the same place on screen - navigation input is always visible and same place - you can have shortcuts for functions you would need immediately Touchscreen is as responsive/fast as current gen iPad and probably more intuitive (tho this is subjective).
    - SkyPuncher 3y ago
      I only test drove one, but I felt very overwhelmed in the 30 minutes I had it - and I was coming from a car with strong adaptive cruise/lane centering. * wipers were not at all obvious to me. I don’t remember speed control and wash being physical. * many of the actions are on the same physical button and context specific. While it would be fine after I get use to the car, very overwhelming
      - jnsaff2 3y ago
        - wipers - button at the end of left side stalk, half press for single wipe, full press for wash. Some seconds after this the left thumb wheel left/right can be used to adjust wiper speed (this last has come as a sw update within this year). Wiper automation/rain sensing on Tesla is in general rather poor, I wish they would give up on their camera ideology for reliable sensors or at least made the sw good. - adaptive cruise control is single down pull on right stalk. With lane keeping activated by a double pull. Speed adjusted with scrolling right thumb wheel and distance right thumb wheel left/right.
- zaptrem 3y ago
  Agreed, apart from fiddling with navigation (which is touch in any car unless you’re willing to deal with voice assistants) 99% of my control input is via the steering wheel buttons.
- jancsika 3y ago
  > To the point where I now feel a bit attacked by sea of buttons when I get into a modern non-Tesla. Going to need to read make/model/trim example before I believe that. E.g., Mazda3 has very elegant non-cluttered knob UX. Also, the knobs available on last few years of Prius Prime LE are super obvious and bog standard for controlling heat/cool/etc. (E.g., red for heat and blue for cool IIRC.) Even the newest Civics I've seen with the big slow touchscreens have just three obvious knobs that do obvious things, above which there is a solitary button that appears to be the bog standard triangular hazard lights button.
  - jnsaff2 3y ago
    Audi eTron something something SUV. Just so busy and confusing, wall of buttons. But also touchpad or dial or something to use the laggy and entertainment. Entering addresses complete pain. Similar story with the Lexus NX. Added bonus of things not actually working.
nat0704 3y ago
Apparently you're in an extremely tiny (so tiny it's negligible) minority, The buyers who have made the car the best-selling car on Earth obviously couldn't care less about the opinions of virtue signallers.
- fasthands9 3y ago
  You need "only" 3% of new sales to be the top selling car in the country. That's obviously an incredible accomplishment to hit 3%, but just pointing out that calling a group of people "tiny minority" here doesn't really make any sense. It could easily be the case that more than 50-percent of people would never buy from Tesla.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- r00fus 3y ago
  More anecdata, but I’m also in the “would buy Model Y but for Musk” camp. It’s not just the Q fueled toxic masculinity that he exudes but an understanding of how organizations work and that values come from the top down. In paper it’s a fantastic car and deserves it’s popularity.
  - constantly 3y ago
    I am too. I do like the Model Y and have driven them hundreds of miles while doing rental cars. I ended up with a different EV because of Musk. I don’t make it a point to tell people this, and I don’t imagine anyone really cares why I got the particular car I did, but ethically and philosophically I didn’t get a Model Y.
__turbobrew__ 3y ago
What I really want is an analog electric car. Give me an electric power train with all big knobs and buttons, no touch screen, and no over the air software updates, and no phoning back home and spying on me.
- rad_gruchalski 3y ago
  That ship has sailed.
  - monocasa 3y ago
    Not necessarily: https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/automakers-are-bringing-back-buttons-and-knobs-as-touch-screens-become-scourge-for-drivers/ https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/automakers-are-bringing-back...
    - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
      Yeah, “no phoning back home”…
- zh3 3y ago
  Seen the Morgan XP-1? [0] From the article:- "We want future electric Morgans to be the most analog EVs", Hole (Morgan's CTO) says. [0] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/12/throwback-sportscar-maker-morgan-hasnt-forgotten-about-evs-meet-xp-1/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/12/throwback-sportscar-mak...
- danans 3y ago
  If you are on the US West Coast and interested in a ICE->EV classic car conversion, look into: https://current-la.com/ https://current-la.com/ https://www.evwest.com/ https://www.evwest.com/ https://www.ev-works.com/ https://www.ev-works.com/
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
LewisVerstappen 3y ago
> because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk I assure you that 99.999% of people really don't care about your car. And they care far, far less about whether you support Elon Musk.
- syndicatedjelly 3y ago
  They must live in Los Angeles. Your car represents who you are as a person there.
- aschobel 3y ago
  I recently took delivery of a new Tesla and was worried that my color choice would be too flashy. Then I started noticing a ton of cars with the same color. I understand where the OP is coming from. You over estimate what people think of you and your choices. In the end I believe you are correct, most people just don’t care about your choices.
rvz 3y ago
> As someone that does mostly city driving and is the perfect use case for an EV, I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. Please. Does driving a Volkswagon mean that you support their founder which in this case was Adolf Hitler of the German Labor front? It doesn't. Which is why the majority of drivers do not care about any of that, and only an extreme tiny minority hold that view in the case of both VW and Tesla. >> That and I really hate the lack of tactile buttons in those cars, and their love for a clearly unsafe "full self driving" solution The FSD scam is valid criticism of its deceptive advertisement of its false sense of safety, which at least it is an add-on which you don't have to buy it with the care.
- constantly 3y ago
  Respectfully to your Elon Musk / Nazi comparison you’re making (basically Goodwin’s Law right? Eventually someone was going to bring up hitler…) if the third reich were in power and selling Volkswagens I wouldn’t be buying one even if no one else cared.
jimbob45 3y ago
I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. Bold considering what Toyota, VW, and Ford have gotten away with over the past few decades. Surely Toyota intentionally hiding faulty brakes is at least on-par with Musk sharing a meme you didn’t agree with. Musk has done more for climate change with the electric revolution than, let’s say, VW intentionally misleading emissions testers with their vehicles.
jbm 3y ago
Does significant damage, second most selling vehicle? Weird. I've never considered Musk in the context of my car, much like my parents didn't consider the Toyota family when buying their car. If we want to play the purity spiral game, we could say anyone who funds gasoline-first car companies is funding critical damage to the environment. (I assume the next step is a StrongTowns (tm) supporter telling us how cars are unnecessary, we need density, then a doomer complaining about how having children is unnecessary carbon emissions, etc...) I am being facetious here though, I liked the Hyundai EV when I rented it, and disliked the Model X. I wound up getting a used Model 3 as my city driver, and enjoy it very much.
lgkk 3y ago
Same. I sold my 2018 P3D 2 years ago because of that exact reason. I don't want to support someone who is a questionable human from a morals/virtue pov, regardless of how "smart" they are.
starcraft2wol 3y ago
> I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk Enemy centered mindset. You both lose, but he doesn't know you exist.
manav 3y ago
I hear VWs make some electric cars. It's founder might be more to your liking.
- danans 3y ago
  The Nuremberg trials happened between then and now. Germany continues to facilitate and participate in the apprehension of Nazis and their collaborators, even those who are toward the end of their lives. You must know that, and that Germany today is among the most strident opponents of anti-Semitism because of its history, and that this permeates society, especially in board rooms, populated by people who were made to reckon with the horrors committed by the Nazis as part of their basic education. Among European countries has been very accepting of refugees from war-torn regions, even non-white refugees. Furthermore, unlike the US, Germany has been able to keep xenophobes out of control of government (while dealing with very similar domestic xenophobic movements that the US faces). If you have credible evidence of VW's current leadership being anti-Semitic or xenophobic, share it. Otherwise your comment is gas-lighting and deception.
  - callalex 3y ago
    It’s funny that as a young-ish American, this is not what I thought of at all. Instead when I hear VW I think of the company that destroyed the lungs of a generation with cheating on emissions tests. I think you are probably right about what the person you replied to is insinuating though.
simpsond 3y ago
Model Y takes the number two spot away from darling Toyota. Clearly, Musk has damaged the brand.
chmod600 3y ago
"I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk." Twenty years ago we would have dreamed of an all-electric superfast luxury all-American best selling practical EV. The model Y is that. I can't speak for you, but if I asked you twenty years ago if you would have wanted that, my guess is you would have flipped for it. If I told you the price was that the CEO would be an asshole, you'd have shrugged. Obviously I'm projecting and you may have been consistent, but I also think it's possible that we often obsess over unimportant details and take great stuff for granted. And EVs really are good, so you'll probably get one. And if not Tesla, there's a good chance that you'll be "supporting" the Chinese Communist Party or whatever.
averageRoyalty 3y ago
> I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. I don't mean this to be rude, but nobody cares that much about your car purchase. People have their own things to think about and are rarely thinking about the reasoning for your purchasing choices.

by tapoxi 3y ago

TMWNN 3y ago

>As someone that does mostly city driving and is the perfect use case for an EV, I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. I saw a good description (on /r/4chan, no less) of you: People who constantly check in on each other to see what the latest things are to embrace/avoid. What a miserable way to live.

Racing0461 3y ago

> hate the lack of tactile buttons in those cars This is one thing these new generation of "ipad only" cars gets completely wrong. We should be building these interfaces the same way NASA built the mars rover instead of building them like another left-pad nodejs electron app. The feedback should be immediate without lag like an actual button. I however don't really need it to be tactile.

jnsaff2 3y ago

While I can understand your first and last points the tactile button thing is not a thing. For the important things there are tactile buttons, the rest works really well in practice. To the point where I now feel a bit attacked by sea of buttons when I get into a modern non-Tesla.

SkyPuncher 3y ago
The model Y I got into had essentially no buttons. I appreciate the minimalism, but would prefer some basic button. The flip side is most functions are on 2 levels deep in the UI. Makes it very easy to navigate.
- jnsaff2 3y ago
  I don't get it. There are dedicated tactile buttons for: - wipers - turning signals - high-low beams - cruise control (with distance modifications and speed change) - media, volume, play/pause, prev/next - drive selection - power window controls for all windows - hazard lights - dome/reading lights On touchscreen: - cabin temperature is always visible and in the same place on screen - navigation input is always visible and same place - you can have shortcuts for functions you would need immediately Touchscreen is as responsive/fast as current gen iPad and probably more intuitive (tho this is subjective).
  - SkyPuncher 3y ago
    I only test drove one, but I felt very overwhelmed in the 30 minutes I had it - and I was coming from a car with strong adaptive cruise/lane centering. * wipers were not at all obvious to me. I don’t remember speed control and wash being physical. * many of the actions are on the same physical button and context specific. While it would be fine after I get use to the car, very overwhelming
    - jnsaff2 3y ago
      - wipers - button at the end of left side stalk, half press for single wipe, full press for wash. Some seconds after this the left thumb wheel left/right can be used to adjust wiper speed (this last has come as a sw update within this year). Wiper automation/rain sensing on Tesla is in general rather poor, I wish they would give up on their camera ideology for reliable sensors or at least made the sw good. - adaptive cruise control is single down pull on right stalk. With lane keeping activated by a double pull. Speed adjusted with scrolling right thumb wheel and distance right thumb wheel left/right.
zaptrem 3y ago
Agreed, apart from fiddling with navigation (which is touch in any car unless you’re willing to deal with voice assistants) 99% of my control input is via the steering wheel buttons.
jancsika 3y ago
> To the point where I now feel a bit attacked by sea of buttons when I get into a modern non-Tesla. Going to need to read make/model/trim example before I believe that. E.g., Mazda3 has very elegant non-cluttered knob UX. Also, the knobs available on last few years of Prius Prime LE are super obvious and bog standard for controlling heat/cool/etc. (E.g., red for heat and blue for cool IIRC.) Even the newest Civics I've seen with the big slow touchscreens have just three obvious knobs that do obvious things, above which there is a solitary button that appears to be the bog standard triangular hazard lights button.
- jnsaff2 3y ago
  Audi eTron something something SUV. Just so busy and confusing, wall of buttons. But also touchpad or dial or something to use the laggy and entertainment. Entering addresses complete pain. Similar story with the Lexus NX. Added bonus of things not actually working.

nat0704 3y ago

Apparently you're in an extremely tiny (so tiny it's negligible) minority, The buyers who have made the car the best-selling car on Earth obviously couldn't care less about the opinions of virtue signallers.

fasthands9 3y ago
You need "only" 3% of new sales to be the top selling car in the country. That's obviously an incredible accomplishment to hit 3%, but just pointing out that calling a group of people "tiny minority" here doesn't really make any sense. It could easily be the case that more than 50-percent of people would never buy from Tesla.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
r00fus 3y ago
More anecdata, but I’m also in the “would buy Model Y but for Musk” camp. It’s not just the Q fueled toxic masculinity that he exudes but an understanding of how organizations work and that values come from the top down. In paper it’s a fantastic car and deserves it’s popularity.
- constantly 3y ago
  I am too. I do like the Model Y and have driven them hundreds of miles while doing rental cars. I ended up with a different EV because of Musk. I don’t make it a point to tell people this, and I don’t imagine anyone really cares why I got the particular car I did, but ethically and philosophically I didn’t get a Model Y.

__turbobrew__ 3y ago

What I really want is an analog electric car. Give me an electric power train with all big knobs and buttons, no touch screen, and no over the air software updates, and no phoning back home and spying on me.

rad_gruchalski 3y ago
That ship has sailed.
- monocasa 3y ago
  Not necessarily: https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/automakers-are-bringing-back-buttons-and-knobs-as-touch-screens-become-scourge-for-drivers/ https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/automakers-are-bringing-back...
  - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
    Yeah, “no phoning back home”…
zh3 3y ago
Seen the Morgan XP-1? [0] From the article:- "We want future electric Morgans to be the most analog EVs", Hole (Morgan's CTO) says. [0] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/12/throwback-sportscar-maker-morgan-hasnt-forgotten-about-evs-meet-xp-1/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/12/throwback-sportscar-mak...
danans 3y ago
If you are on the US West Coast and interested in a ICE->EV classic car conversion, look into: https://current-la.com/ https://current-la.com/ https://www.evwest.com/ https://www.evwest.com/ https://www.ev-works.com/ https://www.ev-works.com/
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

LewisVerstappen 3y ago

> because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk I assure you that 99.999% of people really don't care about your car. And they care far, far less about whether you support Elon Musk.

syndicatedjelly 3y ago
They must live in Los Angeles. Your car represents who you are as a person there.
aschobel 3y ago
I recently took delivery of a new Tesla and was worried that my color choice would be too flashy. Then I started noticing a ton of cars with the same color. I understand where the OP is coming from. You over estimate what people think of you and your choices. In the end I believe you are correct, most people just don’t care about your choices.

rvz 3y ago

> As someone that does mostly city driving and is the perfect use case for an EV, I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. Please. Does driving a Volkswagon mean that you support their founder which in this case was Adolf Hitler of the German Labor front? It doesn't. Which is why the majority of drivers do not care about any of that, and only an extreme tiny minority hold that view in the case of both VW and Tesla. >> That and I really hate the lack of tactile buttons in those cars, and their love for a clearly unsafe "full self driving" solution The FSD scam is valid criticism of its deceptive advertisement of its false sense of safety, which at least it is an add-on which you don't have to buy it with the care.

constantly 3y ago
Respectfully to your Elon Musk / Nazi comparison you’re making (basically Goodwin’s Law right? Eventually someone was going to bring up hitler…) if the third reich were in power and selling Volkswagens I wouldn’t be buying one even if no one else cared.

jimbob45 3y ago

I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. Bold considering what Toyota, VW, and Ford have gotten away with over the past few decades. Surely Toyota intentionally hiding faulty brakes is at least on-par with Musk sharing a meme you didn’t agree with. Musk has done more for climate change with the electric revolution than, let’s say, VW intentionally misleading emissions testers with their vehicles.

jbm 3y ago

Does significant damage, second most selling vehicle? Weird. I've never considered Musk in the context of my car, much like my parents didn't consider the Toyota family when buying their car. If we want to play the purity spiral game, we could say anyone who funds gasoline-first car companies is funding critical damage to the environment. (I assume the next step is a StrongTowns (tm) supporter telling us how cars are unnecessary, we need density, then a doomer complaining about how having children is unnecessary carbon emissions, etc...) I am being facetious here though, I liked the Hyundai EV when I rented it, and disliked the Model X. I wound up getting a used Model 3 as my city driver, and enjoy it very much.

lgkk 3y ago

Same. I sold my 2018 P3D 2 years ago because of that exact reason. I don't want to support someone who is a questionable human from a morals/virtue pov, regardless of how "smart" they are.

starcraft2wol 3y ago

> I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk Enemy centered mindset. You both lose, but he doesn't know you exist.

manav 3y ago

I hear VWs make some electric cars. It's founder might be more to your liking.

danans 3y ago
The Nuremberg trials happened between then and now. Germany continues to facilitate and participate in the apprehension of Nazis and their collaborators, even those who are toward the end of their lives. You must know that, and that Germany today is among the most strident opponents of anti-Semitism because of its history, and that this permeates society, especially in board rooms, populated by people who were made to reckon with the horrors committed by the Nazis as part of their basic education. Among European countries has been very accepting of refugees from war-torn regions, even non-white refugees. Furthermore, unlike the US, Germany has been able to keep xenophobes out of control of government (while dealing with very similar domestic xenophobic movements that the US faces). If you have credible evidence of VW's current leadership being anti-Semitic or xenophobic, share it. Otherwise your comment is gas-lighting and deception.
- callalex 3y ago
  It’s funny that as a young-ish American, this is not what I thought of at all. Instead when I hear VW I think of the company that destroyed the lungs of a generation with cheating on emissions tests. I think you are probably right about what the person you replied to is insinuating though.

simpsond 3y ago

Model Y takes the number two spot away from darling Toyota. Clearly, Musk has damaged the brand.

chmod600 3y ago

"I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk." Twenty years ago we would have dreamed of an all-electric superfast luxury all-American best selling practical EV. The model Y is that. I can't speak for you, but if I asked you twenty years ago if you would have wanted that, my guess is you would have flipped for it. If I told you the price was that the CEO would be an asshole, you'd have shrugged. Obviously I'm projecting and you may have been consistent, but I also think it's possible that we often obsess over unimportant details and take great stuff for granted. And EVs really are good, so you'll probably get one. And if not Tesla, there's a good chance that you'll be "supporting" the Chinese Communist Party or whatever.

averageRoyalty 3y ago

> I've avoided Tesla because I don't want anyone thinking I support Musk. I don't mean this to be rude, but nobody cares that much about your car purchase. People have their own things to think about and are rarely thinking about the reasoning for your purchasing choices.