5 ms·

Low emission zones should be called instead "no poor people zones" which is what in practice they are.

by gafage 3y ago

alexchamberlain 3y ago
That's not my experience in London tbh; you can get away with a 7 year old diesel car, for example. Also, this is being done where the public transport is second to none, so everyone has an option for local transport 20 hours or so a day.
- sixo 3y ago
  It puts a cost on flexibility, optionality, that kind of thing, which tend to increase dramatically with wealth.
morsch 3y ago
For the record, here are the requirements: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/cars?intcmp=52215 https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/car... Minimum emissions standards Petrol: Euro 4 (NOx) Diesel: Euro 6 (NOx and PM) Petrol cars that meet the ULEZ standards are generally those first registered as new with the DVLA after 2005, although cars that meet the standards have been available since 2001 Diesel cars that meet the standards are generally those first registered with the DVLA as new after September 2015
throw__away7391 3y ago
You seem oblivious to the irony here—owning a car already puts you in the upper tier of wealth in the world. Talking about Manhattan specifically, this is already about the most expensive place in the world and the only place in the US with this scheme in place, adding more traffic isn’t going to change that so no point in using it as an example of anything. Plenty of countries that are not so car dependent have pedestrian zones in less affluent cities.
- gafage 3y ago
  >owning a car already puts you in the upper tier of wealth in the world In the context of Greater London this is absurd.
  - _Wintermute 3y ago
    Car ownership is correlated with income in London. https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/car-ownership-household-income https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-do...
    - alexchamberlain 3y ago
      Something of a Simpson's paradox there that one of the boroughs with some of the country's wealthiest households (Chelsea), maintains one of the lower levels of car ownership (35%).
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  Everything is relative. In the US there are homeless people who own cars.
- Detrytus 3y ago
  In my country millions of poor people drive 18 years old cars with average resale value of 500 USD. Maybe that's still a lot compared to people who starve in Africa, but we are not in Africa.
- shipscode 3y ago
  My buddy owns a car that cost $1000. That’s like 3 grocery trips.
shipscode 3y ago
Yes, this is literally what they’re achieving. It’s incredible that so many people on here don’t see it, but my guess is cause they’ve never actually looked into the people they’re displacing and negatively affecting.

Low emission zones should be called instead "no poor people zones" which is what in practice they are.

by gafage 3y ago

Low emission zones should be called instead "no poor people zones" which is what in practice they are.

That's not my experience in London tbh; you can get away with a 7 year old diesel car, for example. Also, this is being done where the public transport is second to none, so everyone has an option for local transport 20 hours or so a day.

sixo 3y ago
It puts a cost on flexibility, optionality, that kind of thing, which tend to increase dramatically with wealth.

morsch 3y ago

For the record, here are the requirements: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/cars?intcmp=52215 https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/car... Minimum emissions standards Petrol: Euro 4 (NOx) Diesel: Euro 6 (NOx and PM) Petrol cars that meet the ULEZ standards are generally those first registered as new with the DVLA after 2005, although cars that meet the standards have been available since 2001 Diesel cars that meet the standards are generally those first registered with the DVLA as new after September 2015

throw__away7391 3y ago

You seem oblivious to the irony here—owning a car already puts you in the upper tier of wealth in the world. Talking about Manhattan specifically, this is already about the most expensive place in the world and the only place in the US with this scheme in place, adding more traffic isn’t going to change that so no point in using it as an example of anything. Plenty of countries that are not so car dependent have pedestrian zones in less affluent cities.

gafage 3y ago
>owning a car already puts you in the upper tier of wealth in the world In the context of Greater London this is absurd.
- _Wintermute 3y ago
  Car ownership is correlated with income in London. https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/car-ownership-household-income https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-do...
  - alexchamberlain 3y ago
    Something of a Simpson's paradox there that one of the boroughs with some of the country's wealthiest households (Chelsea), maintains one of the lower levels of car ownership (35%).
HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
Everything is relative. In the US there are homeless people who own cars.
Detrytus 3y ago
In my country millions of poor people drive 18 years old cars with average resale value of 500 USD. Maybe that's still a lot compared to people who starve in Africa, but we are not in Africa.
shipscode 3y ago
My buddy owns a car that cost $1000. That’s like 3 grocery trips.

shipscode 3y ago

Yes, this is literally what they’re achieving. It’s incredible that so many people on here don’t see it, but my guess is cause they’ve never actually looked into the people they’re displacing and negatively affecting.