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You must live in a bubble if you think that EU leaders don't see the invasion of Ukraine as an existential threat... Do you get all your news about what happens

You must live in a bubble if you think that EU leaders don't see the invasion of Ukraine as an existential threat... Do you get all your news about what happens in Europe from HN?

edrxty 3y ago
Not OP but just going off the numbers, the US has been contributing more military aid than all other countries combined. I'm glad everyone is supporting them but a bunch of the European countries dragged their heels through the first several months of the war while the US was sending stuff by the ship load. I get that the US is one big war machine but it's not like the EU doesn't have anything to give, they just decided that their own territorial defense was more important even though any supplies would be going towards fighting the only threatening aggressor in the region.
- pantalaimon 3y ago
  I think the problem is that EU countries don't have much military themselves to begin with.
  - edrxty 3y ago
    They have a lot more than they're giving. Almost everything so far has been old models that were already replaced
- Strom 3y ago
  > just going off the numbers, the US has been contributing more military aid than all other countries combined The US has given the most in absolute numbers, but that's mostly a result of the fact that the US is by far the richest nation in absolute numbers. When you look at aid given to Ukraine as a percent of GDP [1] you won't find the US even in the top 10. Instead the biggest contributors are European nations that directly border Russia. Thus I don't think it's accurate to characterize the European countries as dragging their heels. That's more of a Germany thing. -- [1] https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s...
- fullspectrumdev 3y ago
  Most European countries have let defense production pretty much idle or stagnate for the past couple of decades under the blind assumption that things would remain stable, and if things went tits up, being allied with the US would fix everything. During the GFC defense spending was pretty much the first thing to get axed - and it never recovered IMO in most places. The leadership in some countries also has been frankly fucking delusional about the threat posed by Russia. Now everyone’s getting that kick in the arse, a wake up call, and learning that expanding production is extremely difficult when you no longer have the factories or workforce capable of producing stuff like 155mm shells.
witherk 3y ago
Well, yeah. Now they are. Obama was begging the EU to take this seriously back in 2014. "Our people and our homeland face no direct threat from the invasion of Crimea. Our own borders are not threatened by Russia’s annexation. But that kind of casual indifference would ignore the lessons that are written in the cemeteries of this continent. " - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbeLAQ3wBIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbeLAQ3wBIs I applaud Germany for weaning itself off Russian oil, but it's kinda weird that America seemed to be a lot more alert to this threat than the EU.

You must live in a bubble if you think that EU leaders don't see the invasion of Ukraine as an existential threat... Do you get all your news about what happens in Europe from HN?

edrxty 3y ago

Not OP but just going off the numbers, the US has been contributing more military aid than all other countries combined. I'm glad everyone is supporting them but a bunch of the European countries dragged their heels through the first several months of the war while the US was sending stuff by the ship load. I get that the US is one big war machine but it's not like the EU doesn't have anything to give, they just decided that their own territorial defense was more important even though any supplies would be going towards fighting the only threatening aggressor in the region.

pantalaimon 3y ago
I think the problem is that EU countries don't have much military themselves to begin with.
- edrxty 3y ago
  They have a lot more than they're giving. Almost everything so far has been old models that were already replaced
Strom 3y ago
> just going off the numbers, the US has been contributing more military aid than all other countries combined The US has given the most in absolute numbers, but that's mostly a result of the fact that the US is by far the richest nation in absolute numbers. When you look at aid given to Ukraine as a percent of GDP [1] you won't find the US even in the top 10. Instead the biggest contributors are European nations that directly border Russia. Thus I don't think it's accurate to characterize the European countries as dragging their heels. That's more of a Germany thing. -- [1] https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s...
fullspectrumdev 3y ago
Most European countries have let defense production pretty much idle or stagnate for the past couple of decades under the blind assumption that things would remain stable, and if things went tits up, being allied with the US would fix everything. During the GFC defense spending was pretty much the first thing to get axed - and it never recovered IMO in most places. The leadership in some countries also has been frankly fucking delusional about the threat posed by Russia. Now everyone’s getting that kick in the arse, a wake up call, and learning that expanding production is extremely difficult when you no longer have the factories or workforce capable of producing stuff like 155mm shells.

witherk 3y ago

Well, yeah. Now they are. Obama was begging the EU to take this seriously back in 2014. "Our people and our homeland face no direct threat from the invasion of Crimea. Our own borders are not threatened by Russia’s annexation. But that kind of casual indifference would ignore the lessons that are written in the cemeteries of this continent. " - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbeLAQ3wBIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbeLAQ3wBIs I applaud Germany for weaning itself off Russian oil, but it's kinda weird that America seemed to be a lot more alert to this threat than the EU.