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Economic "theories" and "research" make me laugh, because the system is so complex now that it's quite obvious no one knows how to control it or analyze it, exc

Economic "theories" and "research" make me laugh, because the system is so complex now that it's quite obvious no one knows how to control it or analyze it, except when they're taking credit for their foresight after the fact and shouting "I told you so!" while 10 other equally-likely-at-the-time wrong predictions go un-noted. Further, there is no free market, supply and demand never works like it "should", and the emperor has no clothes. Markets are all artificial and manipulated by those who have the most to gain. Very relevant: US wireless ISPs ("telcos".) Their product is bandwidth since everything is digital now, yet we still have "minutes", "SMS", "mms", and "3G"/"4g" (and the inherent ambiguity in those terms deserves another article entirely...) Make no mistake, you are being conned, you are being lied to, you are being manipulated...every day, for the profit of the ultra-rich. People die and generations are enslaved so a few thousand sick bastards can be kings in the "free world".

javert 15y ago
I agree with some of your points, but your rich-bashing is about as immature and idiotic as racism.
- batista 15y ago
  Really? Because I seem to recall many intellectuals with degrees to fill up a room, and tons of thinkers, participating in "rich-bashing". It has nothing to do with "immaturity", and all to do with your theory of understanding the world. A lot of theories of political economy --and they cannot just be dismissed a priori-- say that rich people are rich because of taking advantage of other people, societal imbalances, and, on top of this, that most "primary amassment" of capital in a society involves actual crimes. So, it's only "immature" in some specific theories of economy/society, not all of them. That it happens to be considered "god given fact" in the society you might live in, is no proof that it is right. Contrarian theories are also quite common elsewhere.
  - javert 15y ago
    many intellectuals with degrees to fill up a room Doesn't inspire confidence, and shouldn't. they cannot just be dismissed a priori Correct. They can (and should) be dismissed by observing that they contradict reality. That it happens to be considered "god given fact" in the society you might live in, is no proof that it is right. Don't know why you assume I'm just parroting something I've heard elsewhere. And it's not considered a "god-given fact" in the society I live in, anyway. Contrarian theories are also quite common elsewhere. Again, the standard of truth is not how many people hold a view, but whether ot not it is correct. The guy was alleging that there exists a small cabal of uber-rich who control the world. That's pretty clearly not the case.
    - batista 15y ago
      >Doesn't inspire confidence, and shouldn't. Having qualified university expertise on something should inspire SOME confidence, all else being equal. But I wrote that for another reason: to show that one doesn't have to be an "idiot" to argue that, as the parent implied. >Correct. They can (and should) be dismissed by observing that they contradict reality. They should be dismissed IF they are found to contradict reality. And that's not as clear cut as the existence of gravity or the water becoming ice at 0 oC. >The guy was alleging that there exists a small cabal of uber-rich who control the world. That's pretty clearly not the case. Well, it depends on your definition of "small" and of "control". If I remember correctly, a small number of people do have a disproportionate amount of the total wealth, in the US and globally. A power-law distribution basically, right? And that wealth surely asserts lots of control. Surely SOPA and PIPA, for example, weren't proposed/passed with the insistence and for the benefit of Joe Sixpack or Joe Hacker.
      - javert 15y ago
        If you think the rich are exploiting the poor and not the other way around, you are gravely mistaken.
shasta 15y ago
You're being lied to and manipulated every day, but not just by some cabal of evil billionaires. Your auto mechanic is performing repairs you don't need and billing you more hours than it really took him. Your local grocer is arranging their aisles so that you'll purchase items that you shouldn't. Etc. it's a cruel world.
eli_gottlieb 15y ago
You may be interested in the "Power Theory of Value". Once you think of capital as property and property as the capacity to violently enforce possession, it starts making a lot more sense.
- dredmorbius 15y ago
  Bow Thank you. I've been evolving my own thinking along these lines for the past few years. Very happy to find someone who's been working along similar lines. I'm resonating especially with the Wikipeidia article's decription that "it was never possible to separate economics from politics." That's been a key observation of mine for quite a while. Along with the observation that libertarianism is the fundamental inability to accept that money is power.

javert 15y ago

I agree with some of your points, but your rich-bashing is about as immature and idiotic as racism.

batista 15y ago
Really? Because I seem to recall many intellectuals with degrees to fill up a room, and tons of thinkers, participating in "rich-bashing". It has nothing to do with "immaturity", and all to do with your theory of understanding the world. A lot of theories of political economy --and they cannot just be dismissed a priori-- say that rich people are rich because of taking advantage of other people, societal imbalances, and, on top of this, that most "primary amassment" of capital in a society involves actual crimes. So, it's only "immature" in some specific theories of economy/society, not all of them. That it happens to be considered "god given fact" in the society you might live in, is no proof that it is right. Contrarian theories are also quite common elsewhere.
- javert 15y ago
  many intellectuals with degrees to fill up a room Doesn't inspire confidence, and shouldn't. they cannot just be dismissed a priori Correct. They can (and should) be dismissed by observing that they contradict reality. That it happens to be considered "god given fact" in the society you might live in, is no proof that it is right. Don't know why you assume I'm just parroting something I've heard elsewhere. And it's not considered a "god-given fact" in the society I live in, anyway. Contrarian theories are also quite common elsewhere. Again, the standard of truth is not how many people hold a view, but whether ot not it is correct. The guy was alleging that there exists a small cabal of uber-rich who control the world. That's pretty clearly not the case.
  - batista 15y ago
    >Doesn't inspire confidence, and shouldn't. Having qualified university expertise on something should inspire SOME confidence, all else being equal. But I wrote that for another reason: to show that one doesn't have to be an "idiot" to argue that, as the parent implied. >Correct. They can (and should) be dismissed by observing that they contradict reality. They should be dismissed IF they are found to contradict reality. And that's not as clear cut as the existence of gravity or the water becoming ice at 0 oC. >The guy was alleging that there exists a small cabal of uber-rich who control the world. That's pretty clearly not the case. Well, it depends on your definition of "small" and of "control". If I remember correctly, a small number of people do have a disproportionate amount of the total wealth, in the US and globally. A power-law distribution basically, right? And that wealth surely asserts lots of control. Surely SOPA and PIPA, for example, weren't proposed/passed with the insistence and for the benefit of Joe Sixpack or Joe Hacker.
    - javert 15y ago
      If you think the rich are exploiting the poor and not the other way around, you are gravely mistaken.

shasta 15y ago

You're being lied to and manipulated every day, but not just by some cabal of evil billionaires. Your auto mechanic is performing repairs you don't need and billing you more hours than it really took him. Your local grocer is arranging their aisles so that you'll purchase items that you shouldn't. Etc. it's a cruel world.

eli_gottlieb 15y ago

You may be interested in the "Power Theory of Value". Once you think of capital as property and property as the capacity to violently enforce possession, it starts making a lot more sense.

dredmorbius 15y ago
Bow Thank you. I've been evolving my own thinking along these lines for the past few years. Very happy to find someone who's been working along similar lines. I'm resonating especially with the Wikipeidia article's decription that "it was never possible to separate economics from politics." That's been a key observation of mine for quite a while. Along with the observation that libertarianism is the fundamental inability to accept that money is power.