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"...as long as it's acknowledged that without putting in the extra hours to learn, grow, or ship..." Something is wrong with a job that doesn't fit those thing

"...as long as it's acknowledged that without putting in the extra hours to learn, grow, or ship..." Something is wrong with a job that doesn't fit those things within a normal 40 hour work week.

tonyarkles 15y ago
It's not the job so much as the market. There exist people on the market who are willing to put a lot of effort and are able to become very good at what they do. Even if you had a job that gave you half-and-half (20 hours for work, 20 hours to learn, grow, or ship), there would still exist people on the market who are willing to put in a lot more extra effort after the 40 hours. Those are just the facts of the industry. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with the job, but rather, that there are inevitably going to be some highly-skilled people who got those skills by doing things on their own time.
ShaunK 15y ago
I agree with this. There are certainly situations where more than 40 hours of week are a necessity, but those situations should typically be temporary for the majority of employees. If you are in an organization where meeting your goals requires more than 40 hours a week, week in and week out, then I would say there's probably issues that go beyond your work ethic and personal boundaries.
- tonyarkles 15y ago
  It really depends on what your goals are and who is setting them. If your employer is expecting you to work >40hr/week to accomplish their goals, and that violates your personal boundaries and goals (e.g. I want to make sure I'm home for supper with my family every night), then there IS a problem. It's not necessarily your employer's problem, and it's not necessarily your problem, but there's a definite mismatch between expectations that needs to be addressed. If your goal is to become an exceptionally good developer, and your employer is expecting you to be spending all of the 40hr/wk doing work (instead of learning), then you've got the same problem. There's a mismatch of expectations. You're expecting some portion of your time during the week to be on self-improvement, and your employer is not. But, there are equally situations here where there isn't a problem at all! If your employer is expecting >40hr/wk, all working, and you're more than happy to collect the overtime, then that's totally fine! There's a match! Likewise, if you're a decent developer (I'm hesitant to use the word "average", only because North American society tends to cast that word in a negative light), and you're happy working 40hr/wk and staying at roughly the same level, then where's the problem? You're happy where you are, your employer is happy with the work you're doing, all is well. And, if you're passionate developer whose goal is to become exceptional, and you go home immediately after work and hack away on open source stuff/your own projects/whatever, then that's fine too! There's a few really important things that everyone should be asking: * What are my personal goals? What are my priorities? * Are my current employer's expectations well-matched to my own personal goals? * If not, what do I do about it?

"...as long as it's acknowledged that without putting in the extra hours to learn, grow, or ship..." Something is wrong with a job that doesn't fit those things within a normal 40 hour work week.

tonyarkles 15y ago

It's not the job so much as the market. There exist people on the market who are willing to put a lot of effort and are able to become very good at what they do. Even if you had a job that gave you half-and-half (20 hours for work, 20 hours to learn, grow, or ship), there would still exist people on the market who are willing to put in a lot more extra effort after the 40 hours. Those are just the facts of the industry. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with the job, but rather, that there are inevitably going to be some highly-skilled people who got those skills by doing things on their own time.

ShaunK 15y ago

I agree with this. There are certainly situations where more than 40 hours of week are a necessity, but those situations should typically be temporary for the majority of employees. If you are in an organization where meeting your goals requires more than 40 hours a week, week in and week out, then I would say there's probably issues that go beyond your work ethic and personal boundaries.

tonyarkles 15y ago
It really depends on what your goals are and who is setting them. If your employer is expecting you to work >40hr/week to accomplish their goals, and that violates your personal boundaries and goals (e.g. I want to make sure I'm home for supper with my family every night), then there IS a problem. It's not necessarily your employer's problem, and it's not necessarily your problem, but there's a definite mismatch between expectations that needs to be addressed. If your goal is to become an exceptionally good developer, and your employer is expecting you to be spending all of the 40hr/wk doing work (instead of learning), then you've got the same problem. There's a mismatch of expectations. You're expecting some portion of your time during the week to be on self-improvement, and your employer is not. But, there are equally situations here where there isn't a problem at all! If your employer is expecting >40hr/wk, all working, and you're more than happy to collect the overtime, then that's totally fine! There's a match! Likewise, if you're a decent developer (I'm hesitant to use the word "average", only because North American society tends to cast that word in a negative light), and you're happy working 40hr/wk and staying at roughly the same level, then where's the problem? You're happy where you are, your employer is happy with the work you're doing, all is well. And, if you're passionate developer whose goal is to become exceptional, and you go home immediately after work and hack away on open source stuff/your own projects/whatever, then that's fine too! There's a few really important things that everyone should be asking: * What are my personal goals? What are my priorities? * Are my current employer's expectations well-matched to my own personal goals? * If not, what do I do about it?