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No, it's not at all normal-- when directed at the government of the target country it can be a threat to the sovereignty of that country. After all, the expuls

No, it's not at all normal-- when directed at the government of the target country it can be a threat to the sovereignty of that country. After all, the expulsions are happening for a reason. The Spanish clearly do not see it as you do. It might be possible for the US to avoid many consequences of this kind of thing due to its clout, and I can see that as something which would make it feel normal from a US point of view, but from the other side I imagine that it feels like someone trying to infiltrate your government to do things against your interests and to harm you-- something warranting a very high level of concern, comparable to a planned coup.

hulitu 3y ago
> it can be a threat to the sovereignty of that country. Those countries are already not souverane anymore. Notice how the external, and even internal politics of those countries are dictated by the US ?
networkchad 3y ago
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ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
As many are now informing you, yes, it is normal, as is PNG-ing spies whose diplomatic cover is blown. It's so normal that the term "diplomatic cover" exists to describe non-clandestine spies who are given a position in their country's embassy. More commonly, local intelligence agencies try to identify and follow the spying activity of spies with diplomatic cover, rather than PNG-ing them (or more rarely, as in this case, outing them) because that's easier than the unknown quantity that would replace them.
- impossiblefork 3y ago
  Yes, that part is indeed very normal. But the fact that the country is a formal ally makes it, in my view at least, slightly different. Of course, seeing as the US is in a defence pact with Turkey, I can understand that being ally can't mean absolute non-interference, but I feel that it gets problematic when we're talking about actual infiltration of a country's security services. I think at least the Germans expected some restraint. I suppose if one thinks back, the Germans had a different view, being opposed to giving Turkey bad crypto; and I suppose that can be seen as them restraining their activities in an unreasonable way, at the same time, I can't accept that bribing/blackmail people on the other side is compatible with an alliance. Rather, with enough bribes/blackmail the result is a secret coup of the state whose personnel is being bribed or blackmailed, and I think if you view these things as 'normal' then you might even be blind to such a coup against yourself.
threatofrain 3y ago
Normal is a descriptive word, so the way to settle this debate isn't to provide reasoning about why something couldn't be normal because it's so threatening.
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
Usually if/when you identify a spy from an allied country, you just try to keep really close tabs on them and otherwise let them go about their business. If they start crossing some boundaries, then you quietly and firmly let them know it's time to fuck off. You don't publicly expel them unless you really want to weaken the alliance, and you certainly don't torture them like some of the commenters in this thread are suggesting. They watch too many movies.
- hulitu 3y ago
  > Usually if/when you identify a spy from an allied country, you just try to keep really close tabs on them and otherwise let them go about their business LOL. I bet the US never does this.

hulitu 3y ago

> it can be a threat to the sovereignty of that country. Those countries are already not souverane anymore. Notice how the external, and even internal politics of those countries are dictated by the US ?

networkchad 3y ago

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ImPostingOnHN 3y ago

As many are now informing you, yes, it is normal, as is PNG-ing spies whose diplomatic cover is blown. It's so normal that the term "diplomatic cover" exists to describe non-clandestine spies who are given a position in their country's embassy. More commonly, local intelligence agencies try to identify and follow the spying activity of spies with diplomatic cover, rather than PNG-ing them (or more rarely, as in this case, outing them) because that's easier than the unknown quantity that would replace them.

impossiblefork 3y ago
Yes, that part is indeed very normal. But the fact that the country is a formal ally makes it, in my view at least, slightly different. Of course, seeing as the US is in a defence pact with Turkey, I can understand that being ally can't mean absolute non-interference, but I feel that it gets problematic when we're talking about actual infiltration of a country's security services. I think at least the Germans expected some restraint. I suppose if one thinks back, the Germans had a different view, being opposed to giving Turkey bad crypto; and I suppose that can be seen as them restraining their activities in an unreasonable way, at the same time, I can't accept that bribing/blackmail people on the other side is compatible with an alliance. Rather, with enough bribes/blackmail the result is a secret coup of the state whose personnel is being bribed or blackmailed, and I think if you view these things as 'normal' then you might even be blind to such a coup against yourself.

threatofrain 3y ago

Normal is a descriptive word, so the way to settle this debate isn't to provide reasoning about why something couldn't be normal because it's so threatening.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago

Usually if/when you identify a spy from an allied country, you just try to keep really close tabs on them and otherwise let them go about their business. If they start crossing some boundaries, then you quietly and firmly let them know it's time to fuck off. You don't publicly expel them unless you really want to weaken the alliance, and you certainly don't torture them like some of the commenters in this thread are suggesting. They watch too many movies.

hulitu 3y ago
> Usually if/when you identify a spy from an allied country, you just try to keep really close tabs on them and otherwise let them go about their business LOL. I bet the US never does this.