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>Cognitive behavioral manipulation of people from https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20230601STO93804/eu-ai-act-first-regulation-on-artif

>Cognitive behavioral manipulation of people from https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20230601STO93804/eu-ai-act-first-regulation-on-artificial-intelligence https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/202... Aren't the valuations of Google,Facebook et al mostly based on their future capabilities to do exactly this when they feed everyone's data into their AI?

bondarchuk 3y ago
The EU has a billboard campaign going recently with pro-EU messages and utopian imagery which is also be cognitive behavioural manipulation of people (manipulating their thoughts and behaviour (voting) to be more pro-EU).
- pyuser583 3y ago
  Could you share some links about this?
  - bondarchuk 3y ago
    See my comment to FirmwareBurner.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Do you have any sources on that? I wouldn't be surprised though, with populism and Euro-skepticism at all time highs.
  - bondarchuk 3y ago
    It's this one, "you are europe": https://you-are-eu.europa.eu/index_en https://you-are-eu.europa.eu/index_en The images and slogans in the 4 pictures are what I have also seen on billboards.
    - admissionsguy 3y ago
      I saw one in Sweden recently and thought it was weird. Didn’t realise it was part of such a campaign. Feels totalitarian.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >Feels totalitarian. Meh, it's just propaganda and not all propaganda is minted by totalitarian regimes. The US/west also minted their own during the cold war.
        dragonwriter 3y ago
        > The US/west also minted their own during the cold war. And before and after, its not like the Cold War was in any way unique in seeing the US make propaganda.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dgellow 3y ago
  The EU doing a basic advertising campaign is somehow equivalent to mega corporation manipulating people’s behavior (to their own benefits) by controlling their content feed? Your comparison dilutes terms so much that the whole issue of algorithmic content feeds is lost.
  - davidmurdoch 3y ago
    Most advertising is manipulation.
    - brookst 3y ago
      *all If advertising did not change behavior, it wouldn’t be a thing.
  - bondarchuk 3y ago
    Content feed: text and images you see when you look at your computer/phone Outdoor billboards: text and images you see when you go outside and look around I don't see what is dilutive about this comparison, seems about equal to me (except outdoor advertising is worse because you can't avoid it by not visiting certain websites). My broader point, I guess, is that the intended interpretation of the word "manipulation" seems to be restricted to "manipulation we disagree with".
    - developer93 3y ago
      While billboards are annoying, a) everyone sees the same, they aren't tailored, b) they aren't as ubiquitous, most people don't spend as much time looking at billboards as they do at various feeds and c) they are only show 1 advert, I would say an equivalent to a feed would be every billboard in a part of a city showing an advert that sells the same thing in a slightly different way.
afavour 3y ago
That quote is missing some context, the term is used in a section on “systems considered a threat to people”, the examples it gives are specifically behavioural manipulation to do something dangerous like violence. It’s not just any attempt to change someone’s mind on something, that would make all advertising illegal. I agree the wording is too vague, though.
- CuriousSkeptic 3y ago
  > that would make all advertising illegal. I’d vote for someone pushing that. As a bonus with all those American ad-driven malware driven out of the market there would definitely be room for European companies to compete on delivering actual value

bondarchuk 3y ago

The EU has a billboard campaign going recently with pro-EU messages and utopian imagery which is also be cognitive behavioural manipulation of people (manipulating their thoughts and behaviour (voting) to be more pro-EU).

pyuser583 3y ago
Could you share some links about this?
- bondarchuk 3y ago
  See my comment to FirmwareBurner.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Do you have any sources on that? I wouldn't be surprised though, with populism and Euro-skepticism at all time highs.
- bondarchuk 3y ago
  It's this one, "you are europe": https://you-are-eu.europa.eu/index_en https://you-are-eu.europa.eu/index_en The images and slogans in the 4 pictures are what I have also seen on billboards.
  - admissionsguy 3y ago
    I saw one in Sweden recently and thought it was weird. Didn’t realise it was part of such a campaign. Feels totalitarian.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >Feels totalitarian. Meh, it's just propaganda and not all propaganda is minted by totalitarian regimes. The US/west also minted their own during the cold war.
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        > The US/west also minted their own during the cold war. And before and after, its not like the Cold War was in any way unique in seeing the US make propaganda.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dgellow 3y ago
The EU doing a basic advertising campaign is somehow equivalent to mega corporation manipulating people’s behavior (to their own benefits) by controlling their content feed? Your comparison dilutes terms so much that the whole issue of algorithmic content feeds is lost.
- davidmurdoch 3y ago
  Most advertising is manipulation.
  - brookst 3y ago
    *all If advertising did not change behavior, it wouldn’t be a thing.
- bondarchuk 3y ago
  Content feed: text and images you see when you look at your computer/phone Outdoor billboards: text and images you see when you go outside and look around I don't see what is dilutive about this comparison, seems about equal to me (except outdoor advertising is worse because you can't avoid it by not visiting certain websites). My broader point, I guess, is that the intended interpretation of the word "manipulation" seems to be restricted to "manipulation we disagree with".
  - developer93 3y ago
    While billboards are annoying, a) everyone sees the same, they aren't tailored, b) they aren't as ubiquitous, most people don't spend as much time looking at billboards as they do at various feeds and c) they are only show 1 advert, I would say an equivalent to a feed would be every billboard in a part of a city showing an advert that sells the same thing in a slightly different way.

afavour 3y ago

That quote is missing some context, the term is used in a section on “systems considered a threat to people”, the examples it gives are specifically behavioural manipulation to do something dangerous like violence. It’s not just any attempt to change someone’s mind on something, that would make all advertising illegal. I agree the wording is too vague, though.

CuriousSkeptic 3y ago
> that would make all advertising illegal. I’d vote for someone pushing that. As a bonus with all those American ad-driven malware driven out of the market there would definitely be room for European companies to compete on delivering actual value