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Blowing up civilian infrastructure that they, as an occupier, actually have a duty to protect and restore to order and safety [1], after posing for selfies? [2]

Blowing up civilian infrastructure that they, as an occupier, actually have a duty to protect and restore to order and safety [1], after posing for selfies? [2] Calling people animals, rounding them up just because why not? [3] Talking about making Gaza "unlivable"? [4] The minister of defense handing out automatic weapons to settlers in the West Bank? Meanwhile, half of the population of Gaza is under the age of 15, in one of the most densely populated areas of the world. It's unadulterated genocide in service of an expansionist, right-wing extremist government. Another difference is this media (and social web, down to HN) effort to silence and smear any and all criticism of it, to turn it into a dichotomy of who you're for (rather than what international law and basic fucking human decency would require), while Joe Biden talks about having seen photos of beheaded babies. Contrast to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_war_in_Afghanistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_war_in_Af... [1] https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.htm https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.... [2] https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1733066118330265727 https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/17330661183302657... [3] https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1732812594061160830 https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/17328125940611608... [4] https://twitter.com/NimerSultany/status/1731736295666282707 https://twitter.com/NimerSultany/status/1731736295666282707 [5] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231024-security-minister-itamar-ben-gvir-arms-israeli-settlers-in-occupied-west-bank/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231024-security-minister... You can't just do random shit and say "it's for X" and that makes it okay. I can't just take everything you own and say it's to achieve world peace, you know? Or nuke the world to prevent car theft since no more world means no more cars means no more car theft. That's the level of the argument you have; zilch, backed by brutality and nothing else.

skybrian 3y ago
There are arguments like this everywhere on the web, you can find them anywhere, and it's not really what I was asking about. (I am looking for serious, well-written arguments for Israel and they seem hard to find?)
- adastra22 3y ago
  Why would you expect them to exist? This is an unexpected war fought defensively in response to a surprise attack. When responding to the second largest terrorist attack ever, step 1 isn’t “sit down and write a long-form justification of your right to defend yourself, in English, for the benefit of skybrian’s curiosity.”
  - skybrian 3y ago
    It’s not defense, though? Defense is what the Israeli military failed at on October 7. This war is a counter-attack. Since it’s on offense, the Israeli gets to choose the timing. (I admit that the hostages add some urgency, but this doesn’t look like a hostage rescue mission?) The reason I’d expect Israel to justify the war to an international audience isn’t to satisfy me, but rather because Israel needs allies. PR is part of that. You might have noticed that opinions on Israel among Americans are heavily skewed by age [1]. The old guard isn’t going to last forever. If they lose the US, what then? They need to be able to convince young people that what they’re doing is justified, and written articles are part of that. So I’m somewhat surprised that there aren’t more things like that being shared in places where I’d see them. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/views-of-the...

skybrian 3y ago

There are arguments like this everywhere on the web, you can find them anywhere, and it's not really what I was asking about. (I am looking for serious, well-written arguments for Israel and they seem hard to find?)

adastra22 3y ago
Why would you expect them to exist? This is an unexpected war fought defensively in response to a surprise attack. When responding to the second largest terrorist attack ever, step 1 isn’t “sit down and write a long-form justification of your right to defend yourself, in English, for the benefit of skybrian’s curiosity.”
- skybrian 3y ago
  It’s not defense, though? Defense is what the Israeli military failed at on October 7. This war is a counter-attack. Since it’s on offense, the Israeli gets to choose the timing. (I admit that the hostages add some urgency, but this doesn’t look like a hostage rescue mission?) The reason I’d expect Israel to justify the war to an international audience isn’t to satisfy me, but rather because Israel needs allies. PR is part of that. You might have noticed that opinions on Israel among Americans are heavily skewed by age [1]. The old guard isn’t going to last forever. If they lose the US, what then? They need to be able to convince young people that what they’re doing is justified, and written articles are part of that. So I’m somewhat surprised that there aren’t more things like that being shared in places where I’d see them. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/views-of-the...