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> ...truly terrible [battery pack] design (Nissan Leaf)... Source please.

sokoloff 3y ago
The LEAF batteries are air-cooled (not particularly well, especially as compared to liquid cooled batteries that most other pure EVs use). They’re also relatively small, meaning typical use will cycle them deeper than a car with 3x the range. As a result, they lose capacity far faster than other mainstream EVs. I’m a 2015 LEAF owner for almost exactly 9 years. In that time and only 25K miles, I’ve lost a little over 15% of the battery capacity. A Tesla would have lost about 2-3% over similar service. (I also feel the loss quite a bit more, starting with a range that was optimistically estimated at 85-90 miles when brand new.) The 2015 packs were supposed to be better than the older gen batteries (and probably are), but it’s still a pretty poor design if longevity and range retention is your priority. I also had the pack disassembled and a module changed under warranty after it degraded much faster than the sibling modules. Despite all that, I do enjoy most aspects of the car; we live in a city and have plenty of very short-range trips where the car is quite nicely matched and pleasant to use.
- Zardoz84 3y ago
  I can't find any news article about that, but I remember that Nissan gives some Leafs to a city taxis. And was a total nightmare for these taxis in a single year. Battery capacity dropped significantly
- mcbishop 3y ago
  Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. Air cooled is lower cost I think. And, obviously, a smaller battery pack is lower cost. ...There are trade offs.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Indeed! I bought that car because there was $10K in government cheese against a cost of around $30K. It meant I got a decent car, got to experience EV ownership (that I was curious about/interested in), and all for ~$20K. The alternative for me was never going to be a $50K EV, but rather a $10K used ICE car. I'm happy with the choice overall and while we can technically afford any new car we wanted, spending more than that felt wasteful, so the tradeoffs you mention are entirely real forces on both Nissan and prospective Leaf buyers.

The LEAF batteries are air-cooled (not particularly well, especially as compared to liquid cooled batteries that most other pure EVs use). They’re also relatively small, meaning typical use will cycle them deeper than a car with 3x the range. As a result, they lose capacity far faster than other mainstream EVs. I’m a 2015 LEAF owner for almost exactly 9 years. In that time and only 25K miles, I’ve lost a little over 15% of the battery capacity. A Tesla would have lost about 2-3% over similar service. (I also feel the loss quite a bit more, starting with a range that was optimistically estimated at 85-90 miles when brand new.) The 2015 packs were supposed to be better than the older gen batteries (and probably are), but it’s still a pretty poor design if longevity and range retention is your priority. I also had the pack disassembled and a module changed under warranty after it degraded much faster than the sibling modules. Despite all that, I do enjoy most aspects of the car; we live in a city and have plenty of very short-range trips where the car is quite nicely matched and pleasant to use.

Zardoz84 3y ago
I can't find any news article about that, but I remember that Nissan gives some Leafs to a city taxis. And was a total nightmare for these taxis in a single year. Battery capacity dropped significantly
mcbishop 3y ago
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. Air cooled is lower cost I think. And, obviously, a smaller battery pack is lower cost. ...There are trade offs.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Indeed! I bought that car because there was $10K in government cheese against a cost of around $30K. It meant I got a decent car, got to experience EV ownership (that I was curious about/interested in), and all for ~$20K. The alternative for me was never going to be a $50K EV, but rather a $10K used ICE car. I'm happy with the choice overall and while we can technically afford any new car we wanted, spending more than that felt wasteful, so the tradeoffs you mention are entirely real forces on both Nissan and prospective Leaf buyers.