4 ms·

The repetition of any and all anti-Israel rumors and dismissal of anything pro-Israel, and the rabid fury therewith, suggests that there's something more going

The repetition of any and all anti-Israel rumors and dismissal of anything pro-Israel, and the rabid fury therewith, suggests that there's something more going on than just sympathy for the plight of the poor beleaguered Palestinian people. No one - not even fellow Arabs - protested on behalf of the Palestinians expelled from Kuwait, Jordan, Syria or Egypt. So, something unique about Israel, I guess. I wonder what it could be.

mandmandam 3y ago
> Rendall played the anti semitism card. > It's not very effective. I am curious though; what are you calling rumours? The murder of thousands upon thousands of innocent Palestinian children? The four premie babies left to rot in Al Nasr hospital? The hundred plus murdered UN workers? The targeted journalists and academics and poets? Reem and Tarek? Those aren't rumours. They're all on video, and the world has seen them. You can go on Shaun King's Instagram and see hundreds of similar atrocities whenever you like, and so can the entire planet. They're not rumours, they're documented war crimes. We can all see the residential blocks vaporised under cover of night. We can all see the aftermath of bombed refugee camps and humanitarian corridors and UN schools. It is infuriating. So, yes, I'm furious. But if anyone is rabid, it's the people committing these war crimes and atrocities, the people cheering it on, and the people accusing anyone who calls for a ceasefire of anti semitism. If you're looking for rumours that lack evidence, try the Hamas command bases in hospitals, or the 40 beheaded babies, or the babies in ovens, or the pregnant women slit open, or the "mass rapes"; all proven lies that were spread by Israel and corporate media only to be debunked weeks later.
- rendall 3y ago
  Like you, I am concerned for "thousands upon thousands of murdered" Palestinian children. We differ only on where to place blame. You blame Israel. I place responsibility squarely and solely on Hamas. There has been no debunking of the fact of the October 7th atrocities. Hamas admits doing it, filmed themselves doing it and said they plan to do it again. You can watch their videos if you can stomach it. These debunkings are paper-thin, special pleading rationalizations for Westerners with an incorrigible anti-Israel stance. "Oh, a game of telephone in the fog of war led Biden to incorrectly refer to the fact of a baby cranium being found as '40 beheaded babies', so this is the excuse I will use to deny anything at all happened despite Hamas proudly admitting it" It is sad that genuinely innocent Palestinian civilians are dying. They are another crime that Hamas will have to answer for.
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    You go way too far claiming that I'd "deny anything at all happened". This isn't a topic for awful reading comprehension leading to vile accusations. Settle down. Take a breath. Try reading again. Or don't; because really, nothing productive is going to come from someone whose response to Israel's war crimes and atrocities is to put their fingers in their ears and blame Hamas 100%. That's an incredibly shitty thing to do. I hope you find your way out of that mindset; it's abhorrent to the nth degree.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - kaba0 3y ago
      You are the one literally questioning the mass rapings.
    - rendall 3y ago
      Let us both take a calming breath and step back. I think the salient point is that we both care for Palestinian children. We both differ on what to do about it. From my perspective, they live under a brutal, genocidal dictatorship who will fling them into the maw of war to tactically garner sympathy. This tactic is not successful for me, because I view it as emotional manipulation. It just makes me angrier at them. I happen to be well-disposed towards Israel and its people. When Israel says they are sincerely trying not to kill children but that Hamas keeps putting them in harm's way, I will generally believe it until I have a good reason not to believe it. This seems to contrast to how many people view the statements of Israel, including very powerful people in, eg, the BBC, HRW, WHO, UN, Amnesty International, Harvard, Justin Trudeau, etc. Many people seem to view every statement of Israel with suspicion. I don't really get it, but here we are.
      - mandmandam 3y ago
        I'm calm. However. What you're doing here is abhorrent. Children weren't 'flung' anywhere. They were at home, or in refugee camps after being displaced four times, before being vaporized without warning. They were in premie beds, before being left to rot and be eaten by wild dogs. That happened. It's happening now. Blaming Hamas for it is the mark of a seriously disturbed mind. There were no Hamas terrorists forcing the Israeli soldiers to march doctors out of the care room at gunpoint, that was something they chose to do. They chose to leave those babies behind, after promising the doctors they'd receive care. No evidence of Hamas leaders in bombed refugee camps was ever offered. Israeli programmed AI has decided that 100 civilians per Hamas leader is acceptable. It isn't. It really, really isn't. It's completely insane to think that it is, and yet they say it with a straight face, calling anyone who argues a Jew hater. It's so, so dangerous. > Many people seem to view every statement of Israel with suspicion They have lied so, so often. The lies are tissue thin, as if daring people to question them. 40 beheaded babies? Pregnant women cut open? Babies in ovens? Hamas command center tunnels under every hospital? These lies are still being used to justify atrocities, and it's beyond sickening. The whole world is aghast. Israel have called stone throwing children terrorists for decades, shooting them on a whim. Their response to a 13 year old being raped was to designate the investigating charity a terrorist organisation. They've called the UN, the BBC, the Guardian, the Ivy leagues, and anyone who criticized their war crimes in any way anti-semitic. Slogans of freedom - "from the river to the sea" have been framed as calls for genocide. They've co-ordinated smear campaigns against well-respected thought leaders for simply stating casualty figures. Again - nothing good can possibly come from this. If you love Israel, or even like it a little, you should be horrified at what they are doing to themselves. This stain will never come out, never; and it keeps getting worse. If you care for Jewish people, and Palestinians, the only sensible action is to demand an immediate ceasefire.
- kaba0 3y ago
  You mean the ceasefire stopped (again) by hamas? Oh and sorry, it wasn’t 40 beheaded baby, it was just killed babies and separate instance of beheadings, with goddamn shovels. Much better. Also, to question the mass rapes is just vile and utterly disgusting propaganda on your part - these untold evils have all been uploaded on hamas telegram channel by themselves and can easily be seen.
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    > these untold evils The only evidence put forward that I've seen turned out to be a ten year old picture of Kurds. If the Israeli government wants its claims to be taken seriously, it needs to stop making up crazy racist shit like beheaded babies and babies in ovens. "Those who can make you believe absurdities..." The only reason to make shit up on top of the already terrible acts of October 7th is to break people's minds in advance of a land grab. Only the greediest, the most ignorant, and the highly delusional are falling for it. Most of the planet is horrified at Israel's response. There was so much sympathy internationally on October 8th. Now it's universal condemnation. Human rights groups, every population, the UN, the ICC. That's not anti-semitism, it's a normal human response to Israel's actions. Again, and again; this won't ever be forgotten. It will never be lived down. It could lead directly to Israel's end, if America is forced to stop supporting the genocide. Netanyahu has created an unending source of national shame. The way the world sees Israel will never be the same. No amount of oil, or gas, or blood-soaked salt-ruined land is worth this.
    - rendall 3y ago
      Honest question: why are you convinced that Israel is making up the burned baby story? Not asking you to justify your stance and I won't attack you for what you do have, just, why?
      - mandmandam 3y ago
        It was debunked in Haaretz itself a week ago, along with a lot of other persistent lies that are still being used to justify horrific ongoing war crimes. > https://archive.ph/fCj9i https://archive.ph/fCj9i The absurd claim was always based on testimony from one single guy (Eli Beer), with nothing else. Why were you so convinced it was real? Try and justify it however you like; it was always absurd, and there was never any actual evidence. Israel are running targeted assassinations on journalists, poets, academics, health workers. Ten thousand very real children have been murdered. And you're all worked up over a baby that never existed. Explain it to me.

mandmandam 3y ago

> Rendall played the anti semitism card. > It's not very effective. I am curious though; what are you calling rumours? The murder of thousands upon thousands of innocent Palestinian children? The four premie babies left to rot in Al Nasr hospital? The hundred plus murdered UN workers? The targeted journalists and academics and poets? Reem and Tarek? Those aren't rumours. They're all on video, and the world has seen them. You can go on Shaun King's Instagram and see hundreds of similar atrocities whenever you like, and so can the entire planet. They're not rumours, they're documented war crimes. We can all see the residential blocks vaporised under cover of night. We can all see the aftermath of bombed refugee camps and humanitarian corridors and UN schools. It is infuriating. So, yes, I'm furious. But if anyone is rabid, it's the people committing these war crimes and atrocities, the people cheering it on, and the people accusing anyone who calls for a ceasefire of anti semitism. If you're looking for rumours that lack evidence, try the Hamas command bases in hospitals, or the 40 beheaded babies, or the babies in ovens, or the pregnant women slit open, or the "mass rapes"; all proven lies that were spread by Israel and corporate media only to be debunked weeks later.

rendall 3y ago
Like you, I am concerned for "thousands upon thousands of murdered" Palestinian children. We differ only on where to place blame. You blame Israel. I place responsibility squarely and solely on Hamas. There has been no debunking of the fact of the October 7th atrocities. Hamas admits doing it, filmed themselves doing it and said they plan to do it again. You can watch their videos if you can stomach it. These debunkings are paper-thin, special pleading rationalizations for Westerners with an incorrigible anti-Israel stance. "Oh, a game of telephone in the fog of war led Biden to incorrectly refer to the fact of a baby cranium being found as '40 beheaded babies', so this is the excuse I will use to deny anything at all happened despite Hamas proudly admitting it" It is sad that genuinely innocent Palestinian civilians are dying. They are another crime that Hamas will have to answer for.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  You go way too far claiming that I'd "deny anything at all happened". This isn't a topic for awful reading comprehension leading to vile accusations. Settle down. Take a breath. Try reading again. Or don't; because really, nothing productive is going to come from someone whose response to Israel's war crimes and atrocities is to put their fingers in their ears and blame Hamas 100%. That's an incredibly shitty thing to do. I hope you find your way out of that mindset; it's abhorrent to the nth degree.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - kaba0 3y ago
    You are the one literally questioning the mass rapings.
  - rendall 3y ago
    Let us both take a calming breath and step back. I think the salient point is that we both care for Palestinian children. We both differ on what to do about it. From my perspective, they live under a brutal, genocidal dictatorship who will fling them into the maw of war to tactically garner sympathy. This tactic is not successful for me, because I view it as emotional manipulation. It just makes me angrier at them. I happen to be well-disposed towards Israel and its people. When Israel says they are sincerely trying not to kill children but that Hamas keeps putting them in harm's way, I will generally believe it until I have a good reason not to believe it. This seems to contrast to how many people view the statements of Israel, including very powerful people in, eg, the BBC, HRW, WHO, UN, Amnesty International, Harvard, Justin Trudeau, etc. Many people seem to view every statement of Israel with suspicion. I don't really get it, but here we are.
    - mandmandam 3y ago
      I'm calm. However. What you're doing here is abhorrent. Children weren't 'flung' anywhere. They were at home, or in refugee camps after being displaced four times, before being vaporized without warning. They were in premie beds, before being left to rot and be eaten by wild dogs. That happened. It's happening now. Blaming Hamas for it is the mark of a seriously disturbed mind. There were no Hamas terrorists forcing the Israeli soldiers to march doctors out of the care room at gunpoint, that was something they chose to do. They chose to leave those babies behind, after promising the doctors they'd receive care. No evidence of Hamas leaders in bombed refugee camps was ever offered. Israeli programmed AI has decided that 100 civilians per Hamas leader is acceptable. It isn't. It really, really isn't. It's completely insane to think that it is, and yet they say it with a straight face, calling anyone who argues a Jew hater. It's so, so dangerous. > Many people seem to view every statement of Israel with suspicion They have lied so, so often. The lies are tissue thin, as if daring people to question them. 40 beheaded babies? Pregnant women cut open? Babies in ovens? Hamas command center tunnels under every hospital? These lies are still being used to justify atrocities, and it's beyond sickening. The whole world is aghast. Israel have called stone throwing children terrorists for decades, shooting them on a whim. Their response to a 13 year old being raped was to designate the investigating charity a terrorist organisation. They've called the UN, the BBC, the Guardian, the Ivy leagues, and anyone who criticized their war crimes in any way anti-semitic. Slogans of freedom - "from the river to the sea" have been framed as calls for genocide. They've co-ordinated smear campaigns against well-respected thought leaders for simply stating casualty figures. Again - nothing good can possibly come from this. If you love Israel, or even like it a little, you should be horrified at what they are doing to themselves. This stain will never come out, never; and it keeps getting worse. If you care for Jewish people, and Palestinians, the only sensible action is to demand an immediate ceasefire.
kaba0 3y ago
You mean the ceasefire stopped (again) by hamas? Oh and sorry, it wasn’t 40 beheaded baby, it was just killed babies and separate instance of beheadings, with goddamn shovels. Much better. Also, to question the mass rapes is just vile and utterly disgusting propaganda on your part - these untold evils have all been uploaded on hamas telegram channel by themselves and can easily be seen.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  > these untold evils The only evidence put forward that I've seen turned out to be a ten year old picture of Kurds. If the Israeli government wants its claims to be taken seriously, it needs to stop making up crazy racist shit like beheaded babies and babies in ovens. "Those who can make you believe absurdities..." The only reason to make shit up on top of the already terrible acts of October 7th is to break people's minds in advance of a land grab. Only the greediest, the most ignorant, and the highly delusional are falling for it. Most of the planet is horrified at Israel's response. There was so much sympathy internationally on October 8th. Now it's universal condemnation. Human rights groups, every population, the UN, the ICC. That's not anti-semitism, it's a normal human response to Israel's actions. Again, and again; this won't ever be forgotten. It will never be lived down. It could lead directly to Israel's end, if America is forced to stop supporting the genocide. Netanyahu has created an unending source of national shame. The way the world sees Israel will never be the same. No amount of oil, or gas, or blood-soaked salt-ruined land is worth this.
  - rendall 3y ago
    Honest question: why are you convinced that Israel is making up the burned baby story? Not asking you to justify your stance and I won't attack you for what you do have, just, why?
    - mandmandam 3y ago
      It was debunked in Haaretz itself a week ago, along with a lot of other persistent lies that are still being used to justify horrific ongoing war crimes. > https://archive.ph/fCj9i https://archive.ph/fCj9i The absurd claim was always based on testimony from one single guy (Eli Beer), with nothing else. Why were you so convinced it was real? Try and justify it however you like; it was always absurd, and there was never any actual evidence. Israel are running targeted assassinations on journalists, poets, academics, health workers. Ten thousand very real children have been murdered. And you're all worked up over a baby that never existed. Explain it to me.