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Forging a judges signature, by itself, will get you jail time. So will impersonating a police officer in most states[1]. By taking this method of locating the

Forging a judges signature, by itself, will get you jail time. So will impersonating a police officer in most states[1]. By taking this method of locating the woman, the stalker basically guaranteed himself prison time; plenty of stalkers do some really scary stuff without getting sentenced to any time in prison. 1: It really varies; surprisingly enough it's not a felony in all states, and in at least one state, it's only a felony if there is intent to benefit from the authority granted.

jonhohle 3y ago
That’s the thing with laws, they don’t prevent crime, they just enumerate it. Any time I hear a politician say they are going to reduce a particular crime by passing a law, I wonder why existing laws aren’t enforced that likely already cover the behavior being targeted. I suppose that would mean planning, logistics, and execution - things politicians don’t know how to do.
- b112 3y ago
  There is most definitely a section of society which is held in check by laws, and their outcome. Those that do not fit the above, having no impulse control, or perhaps mental issues, then laws result in stuffing them away. It's not perfect. Yet every human society does this, and has done this for millenia. Consider that.
  - willy_k 3y ago
    Don’t you think it’s disingenuous to reduce “law breakers” to those people?
    - junofan 3y ago
      This story is about a dude who drove 30–40 hours to kill somebody and still had a quarter ounce of meth left in his Jeep when he got caught. He should serve some time.
    - b112 3y ago
      Two categories, with no statement that this was all categories. And, one of the two categories are not law breakers at all, merely held in check by fear of laws. Note I was responding to someone who effectly said laws don't prevent crime, and citing ways they do. Understand the context. My statement was not a 200 page dissertation on "those who might break laws" and a deep dive into societal ethics, etc.
- bawolff 3y ago
  Laws enumerate both punidhment and ways to do things. The latter can prevent crimes. E.g. there is a law saying you cant serve alcohol to minors. That in and of itself doesnt prevent beyond threat of punishment if caught. There is also a law saying you have to check ids. Procedures like that do have a preventitive effect.
- pixl97 3y ago
  > they don’t prevent crime, they just enumerate it. This isn't always correct and is rather myopic. Quite often laws will issue punishments for some behaviors, but also issue things like funding for programs that work on the roots of why particular crimes occur. Now, laws that punish post ad hoc are always easier to measure and see, because it's much harder to prove that you prevented something that only had a probability of happening in the first place.
  - NoLsAfterMid 3y ago
    > Quite often laws will issue punishments for some behaviors, but also issue things like funding for programs that work on the roots of why particular crimes occur. That still requires enforcement. The existence of a law does not imply existence of enforcement, much less wide-spread enforcement (see e.g. wage theft, auto breakins, petty theft, etc).
CuriousCosmic 3y ago
the issue with this is that something like this shouldn't be an option for systems that can be trivially accessed anonymously. Like if the system can easily be used to exfiltrate information or perform criminal actions but you can do so anonymously without much effort or more generally doing so remotely in a jurisdiction where you can never be prosecuted, then that system is broken. Systems that rely on a person not wanting to get caught breaking the rules only work when A the person cares and B the person is capable of being punished. If that invariant doesn't hold up then the system is broken.
_dain_ 3y ago
>Forging a judges signature, by itself, will get you jail time. So will impersonating a police officer in most states[1]. By taking this method of locating the woman, the stalker basically guaranteed himself prison time well good thing emails can only be sent within the USA
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  You aren’t giving any credit to the fact that, worldwide, society largely operates lawfully, in no small part thanks to the penalties associated with breaking laws. These things often have a way of working themselves out. I’m not saying that Verizon’s handling of this was anything other than grossly negligent, but let’s not pretend that the sole solution to, well, any problem involve…what? Asymmetric cryptography? Something being illegal, even in another jurisdiction, is certainly a deterrent for a lot of people.
  - darkerside 3y ago
    Exactly. Did you know bank safes are vulnerable to an easily fashioned homemade pipe bomb?
bdd8f1df777b 3y ago
Prevention is always better than cure. Some people are just not deterred by consequences, and by the time they face their consequences, the damage to the victim cannot be undone.
NoLsAfterMid 3y ago
Oh well if there's jail time, surely people will be dissuaded and follow the law.
dclowd9901 3y ago
Uhm, judging by the stalker’s rhetoric, I don’t think they were worried about going to jail.
resoluteteeth 3y ago
> Forging a judges signature, by itself, will get you jail time. So will impersonating a police officer in most states[1]. By taking this method of locating the woman, the stalker basically guaranteed himself prison time; plenty of stalkers do some really scary stuff without getting sentenced to any time in prison. OK, and what if it was, say, the Saudi government doing it rather than a crazy stalker in the US?
FireBeyond 3y ago
> 1: It really varies; surprisingly enough it's not a felony in all states, and in at least one state, it's only a felony if there is intent to benefit from the authority granted. You think that's surprising? Wait til you hear that in 35 states, a police officer can claim that a detainee, in custody, even handcuffed at the time, can 'consent' to intercourse with the officer. (That's even before you get to the lesser issue of why a police officer is having intercourse at work...)

jonhohle 3y ago

That’s the thing with laws, they don’t prevent crime, they just enumerate it. Any time I hear a politician say they are going to reduce a particular crime by passing a law, I wonder why existing laws aren’t enforced that likely already cover the behavior being targeted. I suppose that would mean planning, logistics, and execution - things politicians don’t know how to do.

b112 3y ago
There is most definitely a section of society which is held in check by laws, and their outcome. Those that do not fit the above, having no impulse control, or perhaps mental issues, then laws result in stuffing them away. It's not perfect. Yet every human society does this, and has done this for millenia. Consider that.
- willy_k 3y ago
  Don’t you think it’s disingenuous to reduce “law breakers” to those people?
  - junofan 3y ago
    This story is about a dude who drove 30–40 hours to kill somebody and still had a quarter ounce of meth left in his Jeep when he got caught. He should serve some time.
  - b112 3y ago
    Two categories, with no statement that this was all categories. And, one of the two categories are not law breakers at all, merely held in check by fear of laws. Note I was responding to someone who effectly said laws don't prevent crime, and citing ways they do. Understand the context. My statement was not a 200 page dissertation on "those who might break laws" and a deep dive into societal ethics, etc.
bawolff 3y ago
Laws enumerate both punidhment and ways to do things. The latter can prevent crimes. E.g. there is a law saying you cant serve alcohol to minors. That in and of itself doesnt prevent beyond threat of punishment if caught. There is also a law saying you have to check ids. Procedures like that do have a preventitive effect.
pixl97 3y ago
> they don’t prevent crime, they just enumerate it. This isn't always correct and is rather myopic. Quite often laws will issue punishments for some behaviors, but also issue things like funding for programs that work on the roots of why particular crimes occur. Now, laws that punish post ad hoc are always easier to measure and see, because it's much harder to prove that you prevented something that only had a probability of happening in the first place.
- NoLsAfterMid 3y ago
  > Quite often laws will issue punishments for some behaviors, but also issue things like funding for programs that work on the roots of why particular crimes occur. That still requires enforcement. The existence of a law does not imply existence of enforcement, much less wide-spread enforcement (see e.g. wage theft, auto breakins, petty theft, etc).

CuriousCosmic 3y ago

the issue with this is that something like this shouldn't be an option for systems that can be trivially accessed anonymously. Like if the system can easily be used to exfiltrate information or perform criminal actions but you can do so anonymously without much effort or more generally doing so remotely in a jurisdiction where you can never be prosecuted, then that system is broken. Systems that rely on a person not wanting to get caught breaking the rules only work when A the person cares and B the person is capable of being punished. If that invariant doesn't hold up then the system is broken.

_dain_ 3y ago

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
You aren’t giving any credit to the fact that, worldwide, society largely operates lawfully, in no small part thanks to the penalties associated with breaking laws. These things often have a way of working themselves out. I’m not saying that Verizon’s handling of this was anything other than grossly negligent, but let’s not pretend that the sole solution to, well, any problem involve…what? Asymmetric cryptography? Something being illegal, even in another jurisdiction, is certainly a deterrent for a lot of people.
- darkerside 3y ago
  Exactly. Did you know bank safes are vulnerable to an easily fashioned homemade pipe bomb?

bdd8f1df777b 3y ago

Prevention is always better than cure. Some people are just not deterred by consequences, and by the time they face their consequences, the damage to the victim cannot be undone.

NoLsAfterMid 3y ago

Oh well if there's jail time, surely people will be dissuaded and follow the law.

dclowd9901 3y ago

Uhm, judging by the stalker’s rhetoric, I don’t think they were worried about going to jail.

resoluteteeth 3y ago

> Forging a judges signature, by itself, will get you jail time. So will impersonating a police officer in most states[1]. By taking this method of locating the woman, the stalker basically guaranteed himself prison time; plenty of stalkers do some really scary stuff without getting sentenced to any time in prison. OK, and what if it was, say, the Saudi government doing it rather than a crazy stalker in the US?

FireBeyond 3y ago

> 1: It really varies; surprisingly enough it's not a felony in all states, and in at least one state, it's only a felony if there is intent to benefit from the authority granted. You think that's surprising? Wait til you hear that in 35 states, a police officer can claim that a detainee, in custody, even handcuffed at the time, can 'consent' to intercourse with the officer. (That's even before you get to the lesser issue of why a police officer is having intercourse at work...)