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It’s also at severe risk of ruining the fun for numerous other hacker-spirit communities like hackintosh or opencore. Apple can come down on this in ways that p

by paulmd 3y ago

It’s also at severe risk of ruining the fun for numerous other hacker-spirit communities like hackintosh or opencore. Apple can come down on this in ways that potentially make it much more difficult for hackintosh to operate, or for people to update their legitimate apple systems after the end of official support. Which was pointed out in those threads too. See also geohot taking some other PS3 exploits that were already published and combining them into a piracy kit that caused Sony to come down on them and patch the exploits, ruining it for the rest of the homebrew community. There’s a reason homebrew people try to keep it low-key, it doesn’t take many assholes to ruin it for everyone. Let alone turning it into an app on their own platform lmao. A decent number of other hobbies also involve some collective good-behavior and self-control lest the hammer come down for everyone. Doesn’t take many assholes doing donuts on quads before you’ll find motor access to that area removed or prohibited, etc. Drones also ruined in like 5 years what r/c airplanes had been safely doing for decades. Etc

leidenfrost 3y ago
> it still puts the hackintosh and opencore communities in the middle as collateral damage. Hackintosh is already on a death march. Sooner or later Apple will remove support for all x86 OSX versions. Its life can be extended a bit by hackers who try to backport the software from ARM to x86. But you can't sustain the entire Apple ecosystem by volunteer work alone. Why spend resources trying to kill it when we all know it will die ln its own in a few years?
- ungamedplayer 3y ago
  I feel that contributing to these closed source extension hostile software never ends up benefiting anyone long term. I know people gotta make a buck though. Sucks.
- dizhn 3y ago
  Arm based PCs are becoming a thing too. Won't the hackintosh have a new home there?
  - walterbell 3y ago
    Arm-based PC SoC designed by former Apple M1 team leadership, no less.
Nullabillity 3y ago
The only people ruining anything for anyone in your examples are Apple and Sony.
- thegiogi 3y ago
  Sure, but when fighting asymmetric warfare self control is paramount is it not? Would you not be mad at the guy bragging that he’s a member of the Resistance? They are not the Oppressor with the capital O, but they are at least an asshole.
  - DANmode 3y ago
    Recruiting reduces asymmetry.
- paulmd 3y ago
  Nah, assholes ruining access to the beach is a very real phenomenon
ycombinatrix 3y ago
[flagged]
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  That’s not quite or hardly at all what they said. Nuance is a thing..
- nine_k 3y ago
  No, it's "geohot unwise, Sony bad".
  - ycombinatrix 3y ago
    i concur but don't think that's what the previous comment was going for.
    - paulmd 3y ago
      absolutely wasn't saying sony was good, but, in a practical sense they are going to respond in certain ways to protect their ecosystem/walled-garden like any other. companies are absolutely going to respond if someone puts out an exe that lowers the difficulty of piracy to "script kiddie" levels, because that's a problem for them. and apple absolutely is going to respond if beeper turns imessage spam into an app/cloud service. is cutting off everyone's motorized-vehicle access to the beach a good thing? no, but, if you get a few idiots who aren't mature enough to avoid doing donuts and tearing things up in public areas, then that's exactly what's going to happen. it is a predictable outcome regardless of whether it's good for the public or not. again, the point of the comment is that many hobbies ride in "questionable" areas, or are legal but generally in a position of public trust and self-regulation/self-control, and if people misbehave then the trust and privilege will be taken away. it's not really all that complicated, I've literally watched this happen numerous times across various hobbies. I watched a county remove motor-vehicle access to a national forest because ATVs didn't stop doing donuts and tearing things up. First it was a couple years of the fire trails having bulldozers take a bite out of them so that ATVs couldn't navigate the forest, after people started going around they just flat-out passed an ordinance that banned all non-license-plated vehicles from the forests. At this point I think the beeper guy probably is welcoming this, he's trying to make a point or political statement, and the hackintosh and opencore communities are kinda in the crossfire. At the end of the day those communities have a lot more to lose than beeper can ever gain - apple is not going to allow third-parties to exploit old binaries and generated serial-numbers to mass-register non-apple devices into imessage at scale, but, they sure as hell can make hackintosh impossible in the process. if you're interested in those communities, that's how this guy looks - he is the "hacker" who packaged up an existing exploit into a nice neat package and is marketing it to script kiddies at scale, and ruining the hobby for a bunch of people who have enjoyed it for a decade on the down-low. first off that's kind of a douchy thing to do, independent of whether it's legal. nobody likes the guy who says "well ACTUALLY..." when you ask him to stop tearing up the forest and bringing the county down on your heads. secondly it's absolutely putting them at danger of anti-circumvention provisions (and courting that case seems to be the point) and also serves as an enabling factor for actually-illegal activity at scale, like spam and malware. like yes, you do bear responsibility when you package up an exploit and market it to the general public.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nine_k 3y ago
All these activities live in a grey area: "We are breaking some rules, but in such a small-time way that the big guys don't bother enforcing the them". Fly below radars, and you will have your small joys for indefinitely long. This raises the question: is that a space worth inhabiting? Are hackintosh or homebrew PlayStation games worth it, compared to more open platforms where you are not breaking ToS? Answers, of course, differ! But the question is worth asking.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  At least regarding homebrew PlayStation games, for me that was a very valuable grey area space on the PSP and then PSVita, since back then there weren't many other kid-friendly options for similar portable computers (this being relevant because as an adult I am not dependent on convincing someone else to buy me things). Nowadays smartphones are so much more capable and so much more accessible to kids, plus you can even get literal handheld PCs like the Steam Deck, so homebrew is a lot less worthwhile in my opinion (except for just the sake of hacking, since consoles at least tended to have very interesting security/DRM arrangements).

by paulmd 3y ago

leidenfrost 3y ago

> it still puts the hackintosh and opencore communities in the middle as collateral damage. Hackintosh is already on a death march. Sooner or later Apple will remove support for all x86 OSX versions. Its life can be extended a bit by hackers who try to backport the software from ARM to x86. But you can't sustain the entire Apple ecosystem by volunteer work alone. Why spend resources trying to kill it when we all know it will die ln its own in a few years?

ungamedplayer 3y ago
I feel that contributing to these closed source extension hostile software never ends up benefiting anyone long term. I know people gotta make a buck though. Sucks.
dizhn 3y ago
Arm based PCs are becoming a thing too. Won't the hackintosh have a new home there?
- walterbell 3y ago
  Arm-based PC SoC designed by former Apple M1 team leadership, no less.

Nullabillity 3y ago

The only people ruining anything for anyone in your examples are Apple and Sony.

thegiogi 3y ago
Sure, but when fighting asymmetric warfare self control is paramount is it not? Would you not be mad at the guy bragging that he’s a member of the Resistance? They are not the Oppressor with the capital O, but they are at least an asshole.
- DANmode 3y ago
  Recruiting reduces asymmetry.
paulmd 3y ago
Nah, assholes ruining access to the beach is a very real phenomenon

ycombinatrix 3y ago

[flagged]

ffgjgf1 3y ago
That’s not quite or hardly at all what they said. Nuance is a thing..
nine_k 3y ago
No, it's "geohot unwise, Sony bad".
- ycombinatrix 3y ago
  i concur but don't think that's what the previous comment was going for.
  - paulmd 3y ago
    absolutely wasn't saying sony was good, but, in a practical sense they are going to respond in certain ways to protect their ecosystem/walled-garden like any other. companies are absolutely going to respond if someone puts out an exe that lowers the difficulty of piracy to "script kiddie" levels, because that's a problem for them. and apple absolutely is going to respond if beeper turns imessage spam into an app/cloud service. is cutting off everyone's motorized-vehicle access to the beach a good thing? no, but, if you get a few idiots who aren't mature enough to avoid doing donuts and tearing things up in public areas, then that's exactly what's going to happen. it is a predictable outcome regardless of whether it's good for the public or not. again, the point of the comment is that many hobbies ride in "questionable" areas, or are legal but generally in a position of public trust and self-regulation/self-control, and if people misbehave then the trust and privilege will be taken away. it's not really all that complicated, I've literally watched this happen numerous times across various hobbies. I watched a county remove motor-vehicle access to a national forest because ATVs didn't stop doing donuts and tearing things up. First it was a couple years of the fire trails having bulldozers take a bite out of them so that ATVs couldn't navigate the forest, after people started going around they just flat-out passed an ordinance that banned all non-license-plated vehicles from the forests. At this point I think the beeper guy probably is welcoming this, he's trying to make a point or political statement, and the hackintosh and opencore communities are kinda in the crossfire. At the end of the day those communities have a lot more to lose than beeper can ever gain - apple is not going to allow third-parties to exploit old binaries and generated serial-numbers to mass-register non-apple devices into imessage at scale, but, they sure as hell can make hackintosh impossible in the process. if you're interested in those communities, that's how this guy looks - he is the "hacker" who packaged up an existing exploit into a nice neat package and is marketing it to script kiddies at scale, and ruining the hobby for a bunch of people who have enjoyed it for a decade on the down-low. first off that's kind of a douchy thing to do, independent of whether it's legal. nobody likes the guy who says "well ACTUALLY..." when you ask him to stop tearing up the forest and bringing the county down on your heads. secondly it's absolutely putting them at danger of anti-circumvention provisions (and courting that case seems to be the point) and also serves as an enabling factor for actually-illegal activity at scale, like spam and malware. like yes, you do bear responsibility when you package up an exploit and market it to the general public.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nine_k 3y ago

All these activities live in a grey area: "We are breaking some rules, but in such a small-time way that the big guys don't bother enforcing the them". Fly below radars, and you will have your small joys for indefinitely long. This raises the question: is that a space worth inhabiting? Are hackintosh or homebrew PlayStation games worth it, compared to more open platforms where you are not breaking ToS? Answers, of course, differ! But the question is worth asking.

dotnet00 3y ago
At least regarding homebrew PlayStation games, for me that was a very valuable grey area space on the PSP and then PSVita, since back then there weren't many other kid-friendly options for similar portable computers (this being relevant because as an adult I am not dependent on convincing someone else to buy me things). Nowadays smartphones are so much more capable and so much more accessible to kids, plus you can even get literal handheld PCs like the Steam Deck, so homebrew is a lot less worthwhile in my opinion (except for just the sake of hacking, since consoles at least tended to have very interesting security/DRM arrangements).