10 ms·
Tesla Cybertruck's stiff structure, sharp design raise safety concerns
- xnx 3y agoThe concern about the Cybertruck seems disproportionate to the dangers of millions of heavy, low visibility, high front-bumper vehicles on the roads right now.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- darkwraithcov 3y agoThe cybertruck is unique in that it does not crumple like modern cars do, due to its stainless steel construction. Making cars into tanks is actually pretty easy, and back in the 50s cars were built like that. But people in collisions often died in them because of physics. It’s like the difference between running into a wall of concrete at 30 mph vs a wall of cushion. The point shouldn’t be “preserve the car, break the human,” it should be the opposite. Elon dgaf, this is his baby.
- meindnoch 3y agoMore like running into a wall of concrete while holding a piece of concrete in front of you vs. holding a pillow. It reminded me of a video from China, in which a bike helmet merchant (?) proudly displays how his helmet can withstand blows from a sledgehammer, while the other helmets crumple. Like, bro, it supposed to crumple.
- trilbyglens 3y agoHelmets are absolutely not meant to crumple. It's not only blunt impact a helmet protects you from. Its also the penetration of your skull by pointy hard objects.
- meindnoch 3y ago"Helmets are made with an inner EPS (expanded polystyrene foam) shell and an outer shell to protect the EPS. The density and the thickness of the EPS is designed to cushion or crush on impact to help prevent head injuries. Some manufacturers even offer different densities to offer better protection. The outer shell can be made of plastics or fiber materials. Some of the plastics offer very good protection from penetration as in Lexan (bullet-resistant glass) but will not crush on impact, so the outer shell will look undamaged but the inner EPS will be crushed." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_helmet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_helmet But I'm not gonna stop you from wearing a Stahlhelm for riding. Whatever floats your boat mate ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- pmorici 3y agoI don’t think that is true. It has a front crumple zone there are some photos and videos of the crash tested vehicle showing that and discussing it.
- darkwraithcov 3y agohttps://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-cybertrucks-stiff-structure-sharp-design-raise-safety-concerns-experts-2023-12-08/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... What do you think about this article? Edit: heres more irt the design and safety. https://futurism.com/the-byte/experts-concerned-cybertruck-safety https://futurism.com/the-byte/experts-concerned-cybertruck-s...
- pmorici 3y agoLooks like a bunch of people who don’t have any information speculating about something which they have no prior experience with (new body construction style) and reporter’s reporting it as some how news worthy to get a sensational article. Every Tesla made to date has been safer than the last and they are all rated as safer than any other car you can buy. There is no reason to believe they would abandon that world class safety goal with this product. I would be surprised if at minimum this didn’t turn out to be the highest rated vehicle in its class for safety when the official crash tests are published.
- darkwraithcov 3y agoHow many people have been killed by Teslas on full self driving versus other makes?
- alooPotato 3y agothis is def not true
- darkwraithcov 3y agoOh? https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-cybertrucks-stiff-structure-sharp-design-raise-safety-concerns-experts-2023-12-08/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
- xnx 3y agoI don't know exactly how to interpret this video, but it seems the Cybertruck decelerates the passenger over about the same time and distance as electric F150: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLKor7Aven4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLKor7Aven4
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ksaj 3y agoCars in the 70's and early 80's all had giant motors in them, and double barrel carbs just to have enough juice to haul all that metal. They were definitely tanks compared to pretty much any car that came thereafter.
- rsynnott 3y agoHrm. So if you take the Cadillac Series 70 (which would have been seen in its lifetime as a very large car; they tended to be used as head-of-state limos and that sort of thing), it was about 2 tonnes for most of its lifetime and peaked at about 2.5 tonnes. More normal full-size sedans were well under 2 tonnes. An F150 is 2.1 tonnes for the non-electric version. A cybertruck is 3 tonnes. Cars definitely did get smaller in the 80s, but they’ve been getting bigger again for a while. 70s cars did indeed have bigger engines, but they weren’t very efficient engines.
- Tuna-Fish 3y ago> The cybertruck is unique in that it does not crumple like modern cars do, due to its stainless steel construction. This is simply not true, and I do not understand why people repeat it constantly. Cybertruck has an exceptionally strong skin, but that's because unlike in other modern cars, the skin is structural. In other cars, there's a frame below and the skin is basically just there to shield things from the rain. In cybertruck, the outer shell is the main structure. In crash tests, you can see that cybertruck clearly has a crumple zone up front, and the entire structure is not stiffer than other trucks in a way that harms the passenger in a crash.
- alphabettsy 3y agoNo it’s not. The Cybertruck has a structure just like every other car on the road. The skin might be adding rigidity, like other cars, and might be stressed, but the skin is not the main structure. There are photos of the structural components all of the net. https://electrek.co/2022/12/10/tesla-cybertruck-body-spotted-ahead-production/ https://electrek.co/2022/12/10/tesla-cybertruck-body-spotted...
- darkwraithcov 3y agoWhat is your opinion on this article and the claims within? https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-cybertrucks-stiff-structure-sharp-design-raise-safety-concerns-experts-2023-12-08/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y agoYes, go to…most other countries on Earth, pull someone off the street, and they’ll probably going to scoff at this uniquely American phenomenon. I don’t live in the US, and any time I see a car that’s popular there, I’m utterly amazed.
- wayfinder 3y agoSedans actually kill more pedestrians than heavy vehicles overall despite there being 4 SUV/truck purchases for every 1 sedan purchased. Deaths by SUV seems to be on the rise though. Here’s data from a bike site. https://data.bikeleague.org/new-nhtsa-data-vehicle-data-shows-popular-pickup-trucks-are-most-common-vehicles-in-pedestrian-and-bicyclist-deaths/ https://data.bikeleague.org/new-nhtsa-data-vehicle-data-show...
- aaomidi 3y agoF150, Silverado, and RAM seems to still be the worst according to that site? Maybe it’s because pickups are driven less in cities? I think most criticism I’ve heard about trucks are for pavement princesses, and not for folks living in rural areas actually using them for what they’re designed for.
- ksaj 3y agoIn Toronto, which is a metropolis, pickup trucks are everywhere. Is it different in other cities? Most of them get used like regular cars with nary a usage bump or scratch in the back in their lack of use, which is baffling (everyone has their theories), but they are very much not a rarity here.
- crazygringo 3y agoIn NYC I can't remember the last time I ever saw a pickup, unless it's an official city/parks maintenance vehicle or something like that. People simply don't drive them here, at least not in Manhattan or the parts of Brooklyn I know. Contractors seem to all use vans. (Obviously there must be some, but truly it would be incredibly rare to see.) I wonder what explains the difference?
- trilbyglens 3y agoEntirely different culture than the american west and south. NYC is just about as far from the country as you can get on the north American continent.
- otterley 3y agoWhy can't they both be bad?
- poidos 3y agoUnrelated to safety but I saw one in person (on the road!) for the first time yesterday — man, those things look just garishly stupid.
- dieselgate 3y agoIt looks like Halo cosplay to me edit: have come to the point now with vehicles where it's nice to have one that doesn't stand out too much
- tomcam 3y agoI seriously wish I were as mature as you are. I saw some Halo Warthogs in person and would love to have one. I am a senior citizen. Sigh.
- bbradley406 3y agoIf there was a warthog look-alike with a hard top available, I'm fairly sure it'd look and sell better than the Cybertruck. It's already similar looking to kitted-out Jeeps which people seem to love. Bonus points if it uses a battery and generator to power electric motors, which is a pretty reliable and light maintenance setup.
- science4sail 3y agoDon't Halo Warthogs use liquid hydrogen internal combustion engines? https://www.halopedia.org/Warthog#Design_details https://www.halopedia.org/Warthog#Design_details
- qwerpy 3y agoIt looks like my 2 year old drew it. He's been obsessed with it ever since going to see it at the local showroom and he's going to be in for a happy surprise when I take delivery of mine, whenever that is. > "If you have an argument with another car, you will win," Musk said. Music to my ears, given that I live in a city with a recent uptick in stolen Kias fleeing the police at high speeds.
- throwworhtthrow 3y agoHumans are mauled every day by cars. I think general awareness of this is lower than it should be, as is the desire to do something about it. Perhaps this hyperfocus on the Cybertruck will help jumpstart a larger shift in public opinion on general automobile-pedestrian safety?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- clouddrover 3y ago> Perhaps this hyperfocus on the Cybertruck What hyperfocus? Do you spend a lot of time on social media? If so then these platforms will be feeding you more of what they think you want to see, which will result in you having a faulty perception that there is some hyperfocus on the Cybertruck when it reality there isn't.
- throwworhtthrow 3y agoI visit Hacker News regularly, but no other social media at all. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&query=cybertruck&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&query=cybertruck... There's a lot of Cybertruck news on the HN front page in the past month. Which is what I meant by "hyperfocus".
- myvoiceismypass 3y ago59 in a month (many with not many points/not many comments) does not seem to be a lot. OpenAPI having 1122 results in the last month seems like a lot.
- throwworhtthrow 3y agoTesla has more Cybertruck articles on HN than it has Cybertrucks on the road.
- keeganpoppen 3y agowhat… is the point of this article? some randos raised “concerns”? classic journo-trash. not a cybertruck afficionado by any means, but… come the fuck on.
- richbell 3y ago> what… is the point of this article? some randos raised “concerns”? classic journo-trash. not a cybertruck afficionado by any means, but… come the fuck on. "randos" such as the former acting head of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and a George Washington University auto safety professor.
- darkwraithcov 3y ago[flagged]
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago[flagged]
- senectus1 3y agoI take it you're American? Some countries and cultures around the world have very different closely held thoughts about pedestrian safety. as much as I personally like the thing (though its a little big in my opinion), I am in agreeance that it would not be allowed on Australian roads. Its just not safe enough by our standards.
- MarvinYork 3y agoThat was a concern in Germany from day one. The TÜV doesn‘t allow sharp edges.
- sschueller 3y agoThe hazard button is also now a capacitive touch button. How are you supposed to operate that with gloves?
- pensatoio 3y agoPseudo-journalism at its best. There's nothing special about the CT's pedestrian safety compared to all the other massive trucks on US roads.
- Mtinie 3y agoMaterial choices for vehicle bodies matter significantly. CT is an outlier with its stainless steel skin.
- laweijfmvo 3y ago> "The big problem there is if they really make the skin of the vehicle very stiff by using thick stainless steel, then when people hit their heads on it, it's going to cause more damage to them," said Adrian Lund, the former president of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), whose vehicle crash tests are an industry standard. Who is hitting their head (and on what) in this sentence? Clearly there are no such thing as soft cars when it comes to human skulls?
- psychlops 3y agoPedestrians.
- markerz 3y agoThere are plenty of collisions where a car collides with something at slow speeds like in a parking lot or at an intersection. In these collisions, it’s preferable for the car to “give” a little bit and not just crush someone’s kneecaps. It makes me wonder if there’s gonna be higher insurance costs associated with a car that is more likely to have higher liability claims.
- lm28469 3y ago> Clearly there are no such thing as soft cars when it comes to human skulls? There are degrees of hardness for sure, if I had to chose what I would be hit with I wouldn't go for a cyber truck https://youtu.be/X2Aw4eZoijk?si=-Pq-MBTzn3LLmM3x https://youtu.be/X2Aw4eZoijk?si=-Pq-MBTzn3LLmM3x
- Klaus23 3y agoWhen pedestrians hit the bonnet or windscreen of a car, the impact is relatively soft. The A-pillar or the engine (under the bonnet if there is not enough space between the two) are much more dangerous. Some cars have an active bonnet that can spring up to make room and give a softer landing.
- gorpy7 3y agoyeah, model 3 looks to be getting an active hood; https://www.torquenews.com/14335/tesla-creates-active-hood-safety-system-designed-protect-pedestrians-and-cyclist-head-trauma/amp https://www.torquenews.com/14335/tesla-creates-active-hood-s...
- inamberclad 3y agoI really have no idea how it's crash worthy. It may protect its occupants but it will obliterate anything else.
- darkwraithcov 3y agoIt might not protect its occupants, if all that force gets thrown at the driver instead of the front end of the car. Crumple zones soften impacts on occupants, at the expense of destroying the car.
- FriedPickles 3y agoAre there any vehicle regulations designed to protect pedestrians or cyclists? A quick search of "pedestrian" in the FMVSS returns nothing [1]. We can't blame automakers for marketing whatever they think will sell best that passes the regulatory bar. If new regulations would be helpful, let's make them. What would it look like to optimize for pedestrian safety? The new USPS truck [2]. [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/fmvss https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/fmvss [2] https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/23/22297823/usps-postal-service-mail-truck-electric-oshkosh-workhorse https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/23/22297823/usps-postal-serv...
- fuomag9 3y agoThe EU has some! https://www.fercam.com/en-it/blog/road-safety-in-europe--2-2390.html https://www.fercam.com/en-it/blog/road-safety-in-europe--2-2...
- phatskat 3y agoAnd a quote from TFA about the EU and Cybertruck > Tesla has not said whether it will sell Cybertrucks in Europe, but its chief engineer this month told motoring publication TopGear that EU safety rules aimed at protecting pedestrians by limiting external protrusions could make it tough to sell there.
- wkat4242 3y agoHere in Europe yes for sure. For example bull bars are forbidden and also hood ornaments that stick out like Mercedes used to have. However I think this truck is US only for now so perhaps this is why it didn't matter there? I'm sure they would have thought of it before releasing it.
- neftaly 3y agoFWIW bull bars make trucks more dangerous for occupants too, by increasing likelihood of life-threatening injuries to leg arteries. "Light Vehicles Safety Built in Not Bolted On" - https://autoexpert.com.au/s/Light-Vehicles-safety-built-in-not-bolted-on-David-Jenkins-BHP-Billiton-2.pdf https://autoexpert.com.au/s/Light-Vehicles-safety-built-in-n...
- protastus 3y agoThis is from Tesla, the U.S. company which has been shipping a half baked safety critical feature under the name Autopilot/Full Self Driving for years, with no government pushback. America is basically the wild west. Whether you're a pedestrian or in another car, you're on your own.
- ChatGTP 3y agoNow you need a Tesla not to die. Every soccer mom will have one to survive the road wars.
- nightfly 3y agoMore likely to kill the occupants of the Tesla than the other car
- aaomidi 3y agoProbably not, the moment difference is gonna be huge and it’s basically gonna use the other car as a crumble zone.
- mahkeiro 3y agoOk but if you run into any other kind of obstacle, your body is going to dissipate a lot of energy.
- aaomidi 3y agoDefinitely. These cars are going to be awful for literally everyone.
- surgical_fire 3y agoUnless one CT hits another.
- nightfly 3y agoSo best case both vehicles get to "share" the crumple zone of the non-Tesla, so still not as safe for either. Tesla x Tesla collisions both are fucked, and Tesla x anything else solid Tesla is fucked
- diebeforei485 3y agoI want to see actual NHTSA/IHSS crash test results.
- grecy 3y agoGiven that Tesla have to date built the safest cars in the world, I have high expectations.
- GaryNumanVevo 3y agoI certainly don't. My Model X actually has crumple zones to absorb impact from any direction. The Cybertruck has a completely rigid frame, meaning any impact is directly transferred to the passengers. The only thing that's walking away from an accident with a Cybertruck is the Cybertruck.
- grecy 3y agoCertainly that is how it seems. I'm not an expert though, so I'll leave it to them and wait for the official test results.
- diebeforei485 3y ago> meaning any impact is directly transferred to the passengers I'm not sure this follows. There are some clips showing impact from a front collision being transferred to the rear wheel steering axle. I want to see standardized crash tests like NHTSA and IIHS. I wouldn't be surprised if your Model X performs better, but what I would want to know is how the cybertruck compares to other trucks.
- jauntywundrkind 3y agoJust to add, it seems like the overwhelming concern i hear expressed is for pedestrians. I'm also a bit concerned in general with the trend of vehicle on vehicle collisions. Cars are adding a good fraction of a ton of batteries, and that's somewhat terrifying: that a cars inertia is so much higher than it used to be. Now instead of a car with well designed crumple zones we have a car designed by some lunaric to go out and win Robot Wars, designed for Mad Max car combat? In the US, we have trouble with bad visibility & vehicle heights that send pedestrians under. But there at least been a somewhat civil world where we don't have giant swinging blades and cleavers attached to cars. It's hard to see the cybertrucks design as anything but something out of Carmageddon, as flauting the at least semi polite society we lived & building something terrible. With the added vehicle masses at play, it feels like we could start to see some incredibly terrible vehicle on vehicle colossions too, not that we don't already have enough vehicle based horrors to haunt us.
- wudangmonk 3y agoI see a lot of complaining by armchair experts regarding the cybertruck. I will admit that I know nothing about it but I know this isn't the first car that Tesla has built. They are a very successful company with plenty of cars on the road and they are setting quite a few of the standards that others follow. I also know that there are federal regulations that all cars must follow regarding safety. Given all of that, is it still possible that this is a car designed by a lunatic to win the robot wars? it could well be true but you can buy it with the ease of mind that when you are stomping everyone else in these wars, you will be perfectly free from liability since its government aproved.
- mountaintimefrm 3y agoFor some reason they're called "bumpers" instead of "slicers" or "crushers" and frankly I just think that's just a failure of language not being able to keep up with the blazingly fast pace of transportation technology over the decades and decades. /s but not really
- Gigachad 3y agoIt does seem like the design of utes/small trucks seems have leaned in to this aggressive style over the last 10 years.
- jbverschoor 3y agoWhat about other cars when crashing with a cybertruck? I have the feeling that the other car would be crushed
- sschueller 3y agoWe had this in the 80s with tanks of cars that didn't have anything like crumble zones. The entire force was absorbed by the steel frame. A lot of people died.
- z7 3y agoThat's all the experts came up with? Expert 1: >Samer Hamdar raised concerns about limited "crumple zones," but added that other features might make up for that. Innovative vehicle design could challenge traditional safety paradigms like crumple zones. I guess we'll have to check the extent of the compensatory shock-absorbtion mechanisms. Expert 2: >"If you're in a crash with another vehicle that has a crumple zone and your car is more stiff, then their cars are going to crush and yours is resistant." A stiffer structure could also protect the occupants better by deforming to a lesser degree? We're entering somewhat paradoxical territory with this criticism. Expert 3: >The heavy weight of the trucks and their high acceleration "raise red flags for non-occupants." Heavy weight vehicles aren't a new phenomenon in the automotive industry, right? I'm uncertain about how this safety hazard is specifically unique to the Cybertruck, as opposed to many other vehicles.
- rafabulsing 3y agoRe 2: The whole point of a crumple zone is that the car crumples instead of the occupants. More specifically, you want a stiff frame around the occupants creating a safe volume of space, and anything outside that to be more malleable, so that it absorbs as much energy as possible during impact. Re 3: heavy weight vehicles are indeed much more dangerous than lighter ones to everyone outside of them. That by itself is indeed not a new thing the Cybertruck is bringing to the table (unfortunately). But as for why heavy mass + high acceleration is a especially dangerous combination, refer to Newton's laws of motion.
- darkerside 3y agoCybertruck weighs 1000 pounds more than an F150, and has extreme levels of low end torque.
- gergi137 3y agohttps://www.npr.org/2023/11/14/1212737005/cars-trucks-pedestrian-deaths-increase-crash-data https://www.npr.org/2023/11/14/1212737005/cars-trucks-pedest... Bumper height plays a far bigger role in pedestrian fatality than hardness of the vehicle shell. Cybertruck's bumper is significantly lower than pretty much every other pickup truck out there.
- gorpy7 3y agoThis is a rather one sided discussion here. Aside from the fsd hysteria, the camera set and current functionality for automatic breaking may significantly reduce front impact to pedestrians. I also feel it is disingenuous for no one to mention how dramatically lower the front “grill” is compared to other trucks and many cars. the sharp angle is a concern(see, give evidence of a balanced view). overall, the low and regularly sloped hood is probably a better situation than many here are guessing. unless your boots are stuck in the mud, people carry the majority of their weight above the bumper of the cybertruck- this really changes the dynamics, suddenly you’re sliding up a perfectly smooth slope. obviously still some questions about how the steel will respond and hardness is a concern still. but perhaps the equation changing doesn’t mean it its for the worse, many parts and pieces come together in something fairly novel here.
- fragmede 3y agoNo mention of the AEB system on modern cars? AEB is a system, not just on Teslas, that will stomp on the brakes if the vehicle is about to plow into a person. The Cybertruck has this. It helps.
- llamaInSouth 3y agocybertruck collision test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WDq0V5oBg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WDq0V5oBg