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Some practices, such as the indiscriminate scraping of images from the internet to create a facial recognition database, would be banned outright. Sounds like

by lacker 3y ago

Some practices, such as the indiscriminate scraping of images from the internet to create a facial recognition database, would be banned outright. Sounds like the devil is in the details. What if you scrape a large quantity of images and the end result just happens to be able to recognize many faces? Hosted services like ChatGPT can "solve" this by refusing to identify faces, and if you hack around it with prompt engineering, well, they can tell the EU that they tried. Open source models that can handle images, though? Hopefully this regulation does not end up forbidding the use of general-purpose open source models.

esperent 3y ago
First, note that facial recognition is not the same thing as being able to recognize celebrities. It's about being able to identify you or me as we go about our daily lives. > Sounds like the devil is in the details. What if you scrape a large quantity of images and the end result just happens to be able to recognize many faces? I think you can solve this by focusing on the end result. If you create a tool that scrapes images, processes them in some way, and ends up being capable of facial recognition, then it should fall under the purview of this law. > Hosted services like ChatGPT can "solve" this by refusing to identify faces, and if you hack around it with prompt engineering, well, they can tell the EU that they tried And then the EU can reply "you didn't try hard enough, now take down the tool and pay these fines". However, is there any sign that ChatGPT can do general facial recognition? > Open source models that can handle images, though? Hopefully this regulation does not end up forbidding the use of general-purpose open source models This a more valid worry, to my mind.
AndrewKemendo 3y ago
Is it your opinion that since it’s possible to subvert it they should abandon the attempt?
- lacker 3y ago
  I would like general purpose open source AI models to be legal, even if it is possible to use them for harmful purposes. Just like open source cryptography, open source operating systems, et cetera. If a product's primary purpose is crime, fine, ban it. But AI models should be treated just like other technologies, from email to the web to the computer itself.
didibus 3y ago
It does seem a bit lacking additional guidance. I take it that the term "database" implies you can retrieve the scraped photos, like searching for real photos taken from CCTV footage or the internet using a photo of someone's face. But building a model that can do facial recognition, and scraping a bunch of photos of faces to train that model I think would be fine. I think the idea is so you cannot find someone from their face. Like if I have your photo, and I could find other photos/footage of say where you were last seen. For example, I think you could still train face recognition models, and deploy them on Google Photos to find you and your friends amongst your own photos.
martin8412 3y ago
All EU countries except for Ireland use civil law. The spirit of the law trumps whatever legal foolery you try to pull.

by lacker 3y ago

esperent 3y ago

First, note that facial recognition is not the same thing as being able to recognize celebrities. It's about being able to identify you or me as we go about our daily lives. > Sounds like the devil is in the details. What if you scrape a large quantity of images and the end result just happens to be able to recognize many faces? I think you can solve this by focusing on the end result. If you create a tool that scrapes images, processes them in some way, and ends up being capable of facial recognition, then it should fall under the purview of this law. > Hosted services like ChatGPT can "solve" this by refusing to identify faces, and if you hack around it with prompt engineering, well, they can tell the EU that they tried And then the EU can reply "you didn't try hard enough, now take down the tool and pay these fines". However, is there any sign that ChatGPT can do general facial recognition? > Open source models that can handle images, though? Hopefully this regulation does not end up forbidding the use of general-purpose open source models This a more valid worry, to my mind.

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

Is it your opinion that since it’s possible to subvert it they should abandon the attempt?

lacker 3y ago
I would like general purpose open source AI models to be legal, even if it is possible to use them for harmful purposes. Just like open source cryptography, open source operating systems, et cetera. If a product's primary purpose is crime, fine, ban it. But AI models should be treated just like other technologies, from email to the web to the computer itself.

didibus 3y ago

It does seem a bit lacking additional guidance. I take it that the term "database" implies you can retrieve the scraped photos, like searching for real photos taken from CCTV footage or the internet using a photo of someone's face. But building a model that can do facial recognition, and scraping a bunch of photos of faces to train that model I think would be fine. I think the idea is so you cannot find someone from their face. Like if I have your photo, and I could find other photos/footage of say where you were last seen. For example, I think you could still train face recognition models, and deploy them on Google Photos to find you and your friends amongst your own photos.

martin8412 3y ago

All EU countries except for Ireland use civil law. The spirit of the law trumps whatever legal foolery you try to pull.