4 ms·

So does this also now break iMessage for older iOS devices too? I thought someone said something about that to block beeper mini, Apple would have to also bloc

So does this also now break iMessage for older iOS devices too? I thought someone said something about that to block beeper mini, Apple would have to also block older iOS devices as that’s the method they were using that wasn’t as locked down.

SparkyMcUnicorn 3y ago
Looks like iMessage stopped working on my hackintosh...
- usui 3y ago
  Your Hackintosh is not working properly not because of this reason, then. Or if it is because of this, then it's not blanket-wide and it's based on generic model-based identifiers or heuristics. iMessage still works.
SilverBirch 3y ago
There's been a lot of speculation about this, and in principle it's correct. At the end of the day Beeper can work to spoof genuine devices until its indistinguishable from an old iPhone and to block it Apple would essentially have to either force push an update to every device and enforce its installation (they probably can't/won't do this). But in reality Beeper probably leaks a load of data to Apple that Apple can use to block it and it's just a cat and mouse game between Beeper bringing in new workaround vs Apple blocking whatever they notice abusing the system. It really just depends how motivated Apple is to chase this down, and the low cost way for Apple to chase this down is.... to sue Beeper. Beeper might actually be able to outsmart them over time in engineering, but they sure as hell can't outspend them on lawyers.
- sneak 3y ago
  It’s end users connecting to Apple’s APNS API endpoints, not Beeper. Apple can try suing Beeper for publishing software, but ultimately software (that doesn’t infringe trademarks or copyrights) is protected expression.
turquoisevar 3y ago
They were wrong insofar as there are multiple ways to combat this. One of the easiest ways is to block Beeper's encryption key from generating encryption tokens. Another way is to block the fake serial numbers and UDIDs Beeper uses. Yet another way is to block Beepers push notification servers. A more long-term solution is to require device attestation. This functionality is already built into iOS, and on newer devices, it utilizes the Secure Enclave on the device. This doesn’t require older iOS devices to be excluded from iMessage because the attestation can partially be done via Apple’s servers. For the most secure method, however, you’d want the device to have a Secure Enclave. Breaking compatibility with older devices isn’t unheard of, however, when Apple upgraded the FaceTime protocol, older devices that didn’t support the newer iOS versions were left out and couldn’t make FaceTime calls with more recent devices on the more recent protocol. All in all, many tech tubers were talking out of their behind because they didn’t understand the inner workings and were parroting what others told them.
sbuk 3y ago
Take anything any of these "tech" YouTubers say with a dumpster-full of salt. It makes my blood boil when I read "But Linus says..." or "MKBHD did a s test where..." They are all just fanboys in the truest sense.

SparkyMcUnicorn 3y ago

Looks like iMessage stopped working on my hackintosh...

usui 3y ago
Your Hackintosh is not working properly not because of this reason, then. Or if it is because of this, then it's not blanket-wide and it's based on generic model-based identifiers or heuristics. iMessage still works.

SilverBirch 3y ago

There's been a lot of speculation about this, and in principle it's correct. At the end of the day Beeper can work to spoof genuine devices until its indistinguishable from an old iPhone and to block it Apple would essentially have to either force push an update to every device and enforce its installation (they probably can't/won't do this). But in reality Beeper probably leaks a load of data to Apple that Apple can use to block it and it's just a cat and mouse game between Beeper bringing in new workaround vs Apple blocking whatever they notice abusing the system. It really just depends how motivated Apple is to chase this down, and the low cost way for Apple to chase this down is.... to sue Beeper. Beeper might actually be able to outsmart them over time in engineering, but they sure as hell can't outspend them on lawyers.

sneak 3y ago
It’s end users connecting to Apple’s APNS API endpoints, not Beeper. Apple can try suing Beeper for publishing software, but ultimately software (that doesn’t infringe trademarks or copyrights) is protected expression.

turquoisevar 3y ago

They were wrong insofar as there are multiple ways to combat this. One of the easiest ways is to block Beeper's encryption key from generating encryption tokens. Another way is to block the fake serial numbers and UDIDs Beeper uses. Yet another way is to block Beepers push notification servers. A more long-term solution is to require device attestation. This functionality is already built into iOS, and on newer devices, it utilizes the Secure Enclave on the device. This doesn’t require older iOS devices to be excluded from iMessage because the attestation can partially be done via Apple’s servers. For the most secure method, however, you’d want the device to have a Secure Enclave. Breaking compatibility with older devices isn’t unheard of, however, when Apple upgraded the FaceTime protocol, older devices that didn’t support the newer iOS versions were left out and couldn’t make FaceTime calls with more recent devices on the more recent protocol. All in all, many tech tubers were talking out of their behind because they didn’t understand the inner workings and were parroting what others told them.

sbuk 3y ago

Take anything any of these "tech" YouTubers say with a dumpster-full of salt. It makes my blood boil when I read "But Linus says..." or "MKBHD did a s test where..." They are all just fanboys in the truest sense.