4 ms·

It's their home and they have nowhere else to go. Wouldn't you want to preserve your community, culture and homeland?

mupuff1234 3y ago
They have a home in Gaza and the west bank - most of Palestinians today have never been inside the 67' borders so how exactly is it their home? I'm pro a 2 state solution based on the 67' borders, fighting over some "right of return" to a place you've never been for generations just seems like a waste of life. And if you even take the very long term view, a 2 state solution could eventually lead to open borders, and an implicit "right of return" (after decades of peace and building trust).
- adhamsalama 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - mupuff1234 3y ago
    It's their home because they live there now. (on purpose i try to refrain for going all historical because we live in the present, not the past)
  - spookie 3y ago
    If Europeans would continue having that train of thought they would still be fighting. Alas, someone had those same thoughts back in February 2022. And now it's a minefield. Dwelling on the past is a recipe for disaster, having grandiose thoughts of conquest is very much the same (hint: Netanyahu's colonization efforts, I thought I should be fair and account for that too).
  - bitcurious 3y ago
    Oh boy. First, most Israeli Jews are of middle eastern origins, expelled from their homes in the surrounding Arab states. Second, like someone else noted, possession is 9/10th of the law, i.e., the world belongs to the living. Third, the Jewish people are the indigenous people of Israel - there is evidence of Hebrew being the language of the region 4500 years ago.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lazyasciiart 3y ago
  There are millions of people in Africa who have been born and grown up in refugee camps, and you are arguing that they should all simply give up and consider themselves settled there forever because they’ve never been to the places their parents or grandparents fled? For one thing, they might believe that an entire farm would be better to live in than a single flattened apartment? And then you argue for the ‘67 borders: that’s 50 years ago, what makes those the borders we should roll back to when almost no Palestinians of today were alive before then?
  - mupuff1234 3y ago
    > and you are arguing that they should all simply give up and consider themselves settled there forever I can't comment on all the situations because I have very little familiarity with refugees in africa, but assuming they don't have a state to return to and they can form a new state where they are? Then yes, 100% yes. The 67' borders are internationally recognized, so I'm saying accept that and move on. My grandparents lived in eastern Europe before the Holocaust, I'm not crying to return there because I have a new home. Throughout history humans have been nomadic and moved from place to place. If you take any person and go up along their ancestry line at some point you'd probably encounter some ancestor that was displaced (by another tribe, nation, lord, just some bastard, etc), and yet we don't dwell on that.
    - lazyasciiart 3y ago
      The ‘67 borders may be internationally recognized but they are not currently in existence, which is why I am confused by your conflating the ideas of just accepting where you are now and returning to the borders that existed 50 years ago.
      - mupuff1234 3y ago
        Accepting where we are now as in accepting the current international borders as more or less the blueprint.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
Well no, the vast majority of palestinians have never lived in Israel, it is not there home.

They have a home in Gaza and the west bank - most of Palestinians today have never been inside the 67' borders so how exactly is it their home? I'm pro a 2 state solution based on the 67' borders, fighting over some "right of return" to a place you've never been for generations just seems like a waste of life. And if you even take the very long term view, a 2 state solution could eventually lead to open borders, and an implicit "right of return" (after decades of peace and building trust).

adhamsalama 3y ago
[flagged]
- mupuff1234 3y ago
  It's their home because they live there now. (on purpose i try to refrain for going all historical because we live in the present, not the past)
- spookie 3y ago
  If Europeans would continue having that train of thought they would still be fighting. Alas, someone had those same thoughts back in February 2022. And now it's a minefield. Dwelling on the past is a recipe for disaster, having grandiose thoughts of conquest is very much the same (hint: Netanyahu's colonization efforts, I thought I should be fair and account for that too).
- bitcurious 3y ago
  Oh boy. First, most Israeli Jews are of middle eastern origins, expelled from their homes in the surrounding Arab states. Second, like someone else noted, possession is 9/10th of the law, i.e., the world belongs to the living. Third, the Jewish people are the indigenous people of Israel - there is evidence of Hebrew being the language of the region 4500 years ago.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lazyasciiart 3y ago
There are millions of people in Africa who have been born and grown up in refugee camps, and you are arguing that they should all simply give up and consider themselves settled there forever because they’ve never been to the places their parents or grandparents fled? For one thing, they might believe that an entire farm would be better to live in than a single flattened apartment? And then you argue for the ‘67 borders: that’s 50 years ago, what makes those the borders we should roll back to when almost no Palestinians of today were alive before then?
- mupuff1234 3y ago
  > and you are arguing that they should all simply give up and consider themselves settled there forever I can't comment on all the situations because I have very little familiarity with refugees in africa, but assuming they don't have a state to return to and they can form a new state where they are? Then yes, 100% yes. The 67' borders are internationally recognized, so I'm saying accept that and move on. My grandparents lived in eastern Europe before the Holocaust, I'm not crying to return there because I have a new home. Throughout history humans have been nomadic and moved from place to place. If you take any person and go up along their ancestry line at some point you'd probably encounter some ancestor that was displaced (by another tribe, nation, lord, just some bastard, etc), and yet we don't dwell on that.
  - lazyasciiart 3y ago
    The ‘67 borders may be internationally recognized but they are not currently in existence, which is why I am confused by your conflating the ideas of just accepting where you are now and returning to the borders that existed 50 years ago.
    - mupuff1234 3y ago
      Accepting where we are now as in accepting the current international borders as more or less the blueprint.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

Well no, the vast majority of palestinians have never lived in Israel, it is not there home.