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> have a wide and diverse set of opinions about Hamas 75% of Palestinians "support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hama

> have a wide and diverse set of opinions about Hamas 75% of Palestinians "support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7th." 76% have positive views of Hamas (other armed terrorist groups have even larger support). https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20...

bjourne 3y ago
I really wish people would stop citing pollsters with no pedigree. What is the Arab World for Research & Development? Who is funding them? Who is conducting their polls? Who staffs them? Are their results reliable?
- runarberg 3y ago
  Even if these numbers are true, you have to look at them within the lens of colonial warfare. How many black South African supported the ANC against the Apartheid regime? How many Kenyans supported the Mau Mau against the British imperial army? How many Vietnamese supported the Viet Cong against the American army? Today these are considered liberators, but during the colonial wars they were all considered terrorists who conducted inhumane acts. Perhaps people knew that but still supported their fight, simply because they considered the oppression inflected by their colonizers worth fighting against.
  - pxc 3y ago
    And also the context of the ineffectiveness and corruption of collaborationist governing parties like Fatah.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    This times a thousand. None of this can possibly be understood even remotely well without the broader context of settler colonialism that persists to this day, as Israeli settlers continue colonizing land that is not theirs even now, today. The amazing amount of historical revisionism where once it became so obvious and irrefutable that the causes of these various entities were, in fact, correct the entire time at which point colonial powers suddenly do an about face and call them freedom fighters instead of terrorists in genuinely nauseating. ALL groups in this vein commit various kinds of atrocities, because war, especially guerilla war, is itself largely an atrocity. And more war will only breed more of these groups as more people who do not belong in an area, do not share it's culture, and blatantly do not give a steaming shit about either of those things continue to meddle in their affairs. Hamas will not do open battle with Israel, because of course they'd fucking lose, just like the Taliban would've to us, or the Viet Cong to us, or anyone else. They can't field an army and they know that, they aren't stupid. But what else would you have them do? Just waive the white flag and let the Western powers redraw their borders again, fuck up their cities and culture and treat them like brainless savages to avoid being killed?
    - kaba0 3y ago
      > But what else would you have them [hamas] do What about caring for their civilians, not using them as meat shields, not using hospitals as bases, not starting rockets from civilian buildings; using the obscene amount of international aid responsible for the benefit of people, over selling it for profit in their supermarkets to fund rockets, digging up goddamn water pipes to turn into rockets, etc. Oh, also, maybe don’t shoot their own people trying to evacuate an active warzone? Hamas is an utterly disgusting terrorist organization, this is an objective fact. Equating them to freedom fighters is just vile, and a disgrace to any decent movement that tried to overthrow their oppressors.
      - runarberg 3y ago
        From the article we are posting under: > One presentation that David shared made the case that Hamas intentionally stations its military operations near civilian sites as part of its strategy of deploying “human shields.” United Nations officials have discovered Hamas rockets hidden in a vacant school in the past, and indeed, the militant group's vast, underground tunnel network endangers civilians throughout the Gaza Strip. Yet the recent IDF document uses broad categories to identify Hamas military sites and Israeli targets, including a “Hamas bank” located next to a Palestinian kindergarten. You are repeating the talking point of the Israeli propaganda machine. These may all turn out to be true, but as of now there are no evidence for it except Israeli propaganda. But yet even if some of these are true (say digging up waterpipes, stealing aid money for weapons) history will probably state these as part of the liberation struggle (at least among Palestinians). IRA in Ireland and the FLN in Algeria both did stuff like that and worse for their liberation from the British and French respectively. Yet both terrorist organizations and their political arms (Sinn Féin in Ireland) had plenty public support among the colonized peoples. If you are not suffering from colonial oppression it may be hard to understand this.
        kaba0 3y ago
        I’m sure that Palestinean that just wants to live and eat is very fkin happy about the hamas moron with a gun that tells them to go back to the place that will be bombed.. And yeah, hamas is popular with Palestineans, they are very very radicalized, which is a sad state of affairs. There are plenty of populist parties even in democracies that are popular in spite of being harmful for their citizens. People en large are not the smartest.
- zone411 3y ago
  Their clients and partners include The World Bank, UN, Save the Children, European Commission, USAID, CARE International (https://www.awrad.org/en/article/10467/Partners--Clients-2015 https://www.awrad.org/en/article/10467/Partners--Clients-201...) and their polling dates back to at least 2007: https://www.awrad.org/files/server/analysis.pdf https://www.awrad.org/files/server/analysis.pdf But if you don't believe these numbers, here is one from the Washington Institute in July 2023: "Overall, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas" "But it is organizations like Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and Lion’s Den that receive the most widespread popular support in Gaza. About three quarters of Gazans express support for both groups, including 40% who see the Lion’s Den in a “very positive” light, an attitude shared by a similar percentage of West Bank residents." https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-sh...
  - bjourne 3y ago
    > Their clients and partners include The World Bank, You are speaking to the startup crowd. Anyone can put anyone's logotypes on their website and claim they are your partners. It's not even that hard. Mind your sources folks.
gryzzly 3y ago
a standard situation where the leaders of a public are dictators and control education and media access, similar to russians’ support of their own terrorist leaders

bjourne 3y ago

I really wish people would stop citing pollsters with no pedigree. What is the Arab World for Research & Development? Who is funding them? Who is conducting their polls? Who staffs them? Are their results reliable?

runarberg 3y ago
Even if these numbers are true, you have to look at them within the lens of colonial warfare. How many black South African supported the ANC against the Apartheid regime? How many Kenyans supported the Mau Mau against the British imperial army? How many Vietnamese supported the Viet Cong against the American army? Today these are considered liberators, but during the colonial wars they were all considered terrorists who conducted inhumane acts. Perhaps people knew that but still supported their fight, simply because they considered the oppression inflected by their colonizers worth fighting against.
- pxc 3y ago
  And also the context of the ineffectiveness and corruption of collaborationist governing parties like Fatah.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  This times a thousand. None of this can possibly be understood even remotely well without the broader context of settler colonialism that persists to this day, as Israeli settlers continue colonizing land that is not theirs even now, today. The amazing amount of historical revisionism where once it became so obvious and irrefutable that the causes of these various entities were, in fact, correct the entire time at which point colonial powers suddenly do an about face and call them freedom fighters instead of terrorists in genuinely nauseating. ALL groups in this vein commit various kinds of atrocities, because war, especially guerilla war, is itself largely an atrocity. And more war will only breed more of these groups as more people who do not belong in an area, do not share it's culture, and blatantly do not give a steaming shit about either of those things continue to meddle in their affairs. Hamas will not do open battle with Israel, because of course they'd fucking lose, just like the Taliban would've to us, or the Viet Cong to us, or anyone else. They can't field an army and they know that, they aren't stupid. But what else would you have them do? Just waive the white flag and let the Western powers redraw their borders again, fuck up their cities and culture and treat them like brainless savages to avoid being killed?
  - kaba0 3y ago
    > But what else would you have them [hamas] do What about caring for their civilians, not using them as meat shields, not using hospitals as bases, not starting rockets from civilian buildings; using the obscene amount of international aid responsible for the benefit of people, over selling it for profit in their supermarkets to fund rockets, digging up goddamn water pipes to turn into rockets, etc. Oh, also, maybe don’t shoot their own people trying to evacuate an active warzone? Hamas is an utterly disgusting terrorist organization, this is an objective fact. Equating them to freedom fighters is just vile, and a disgrace to any decent movement that tried to overthrow their oppressors.
    - runarberg 3y ago
      From the article we are posting under: > One presentation that David shared made the case that Hamas intentionally stations its military operations near civilian sites as part of its strategy of deploying “human shields.” United Nations officials have discovered Hamas rockets hidden in a vacant school in the past, and indeed, the militant group's vast, underground tunnel network endangers civilians throughout the Gaza Strip. Yet the recent IDF document uses broad categories to identify Hamas military sites and Israeli targets, including a “Hamas bank” located next to a Palestinian kindergarten. You are repeating the talking point of the Israeli propaganda machine. These may all turn out to be true, but as of now there are no evidence for it except Israeli propaganda. But yet even if some of these are true (say digging up waterpipes, stealing aid money for weapons) history will probably state these as part of the liberation struggle (at least among Palestinians). IRA in Ireland and the FLN in Algeria both did stuff like that and worse for their liberation from the British and French respectively. Yet both terrorist organizations and their political arms (Sinn Féin in Ireland) had plenty public support among the colonized peoples. If you are not suffering from colonial oppression it may be hard to understand this.
      - kaba0 3y ago
        I’m sure that Palestinean that just wants to live and eat is very fkin happy about the hamas moron with a gun that tells them to go back to the place that will be bombed.. And yeah, hamas is popular with Palestineans, they are very very radicalized, which is a sad state of affairs. There are plenty of populist parties even in democracies that are popular in spite of being harmful for their citizens. People en large are not the smartest.
zone411 3y ago
Their clients and partners include The World Bank, UN, Save the Children, European Commission, USAID, CARE International (https://www.awrad.org/en/article/10467/Partners--Clients-2015 https://www.awrad.org/en/article/10467/Partners--Clients-201...) and their polling dates back to at least 2007: https://www.awrad.org/files/server/analysis.pdf https://www.awrad.org/files/server/analysis.pdf But if you don't believe these numbers, here is one from the Washington Institute in July 2023: "Overall, 57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas" "But it is organizations like Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and Lion’s Den that receive the most widespread popular support in Gaza. About three quarters of Gazans express support for both groups, including 40% who see the Lion’s Den in a “very positive” light, an attitude shared by a similar percentage of West Bank residents." https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-sh...
- bjourne 3y ago
  > Their clients and partners include The World Bank, You are speaking to the startup crowd. Anyone can put anyone's logotypes on their website and claim they are your partners. It's not even that hard. Mind your sources folks.

gryzzly 3y ago

a standard situation where the leaders of a public are dictators and control education and media access, similar to russians’ support of their own terrorist leaders