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Well Jews are a cultural and ethnic group as well; so saying Israel shouldn’t be a Jewish state is similar to saying Japan shouldn’t be a Japanese state. It was

Well Jews are a cultural and ethnic group as well; so saying Israel shouldn’t be a Jewish state is similar to saying Japan shouldn’t be a Japanese state. It was explicitly established to create (or some would say reclaimed) a Jewish homeland. It’s Jewishness is central to it’s raison d'être.

dml2135 3y ago
I’m not completely bought into your comparison, but running with it for a second — If one were to challenge the notion that the Japanese state should privilege ethnic Japanese over other people living in its borders, no I would not consider that position to be “anti-Japanese”. Similarly, I don’t understand is how expressing the personal view that all of the people living in the territory of Israel — Jews and non-Jews alike — would be better off living in a secular state, is somehow akin to anti-semitism.
sterlind 3y ago
Japan isn't an officially Shinto state, afaik. And it wouldn't be wrong to criticize its subjugation of the indigenous Ainu people. I think that calling for a multi-ethnic, secular Japanese state is fair.
- dijit 3y ago
  Japan isn’t officially a Japanese country? Come on mate, thats possibly the most asinine and distasteful argument I have seen on this site.
  - bluish29 3y ago
    The comment said > Japan isn't an officially Shinto state You are just misquoting the comment
    - dijit 3y ago
      What did the parent to the parent say again? The parent was suggesting that there is a jewish religion and a jewish race and that the race is the qualifier not the religion. Dubious to argue, but if thats the argument then bringing religion back in w.r.t. Japan is wrong and he knew it.
      - sterlind 3y ago
        *she. I focused on religion because it's how eligibility for Aliyah is defined. you're Jewish if your mom was Jewish, either because her mom was Jewish or because she converted. there are Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews. those are all different races/ethnicities. specifically, Mizrahi Jews are ethnically Arab. so I disagree that race is the qualifier.
harimau777 3y ago
So wouldn't saying that Israel shouldn't be a Jewish state then be similar to saying that the United States shouldn't be a white state?
- galahad_ 3y ago
  The USA is a bad example because it does not have a basic ethnic group. A good parallel would be: "France should not be a French state" or "Ireland should not be an Irish state" or again "Japan should not be a Japanese state."
  - harimau777 3y ago
    It seems to me that Israel has two basic ethnic groups, Jewish and Palestinian. I think that many people are objecting to the perception that they are favoring one of those groups.* I also think that many (most?) people would object to France, Ireland, or Japan favoring people who were ethnically or religiously French/Irish/Japanese. * Edit: I think that people are also objecting to the fact that many Palestinians don't have a place where they can be prosperous and debatably had their land stolen.
    - galahad_ 3y ago
      [flagged]

dml2135 3y ago

I’m not completely bought into your comparison, but running with it for a second — If one were to challenge the notion that the Japanese state should privilege ethnic Japanese over other people living in its borders, no I would not consider that position to be “anti-Japanese”. Similarly, I don’t understand is how expressing the personal view that all of the people living in the territory of Israel — Jews and non-Jews alike — would be better off living in a secular state, is somehow akin to anti-semitism.

sterlind 3y ago

Japan isn't an officially Shinto state, afaik. And it wouldn't be wrong to criticize its subjugation of the indigenous Ainu people. I think that calling for a multi-ethnic, secular Japanese state is fair.

dijit 3y ago
Japan isn’t officially a Japanese country? Come on mate, thats possibly the most asinine and distasteful argument I have seen on this site.
- bluish29 3y ago
  The comment said > Japan isn't an officially Shinto state You are just misquoting the comment
  - dijit 3y ago
    What did the parent to the parent say again? The parent was suggesting that there is a jewish religion and a jewish race and that the race is the qualifier not the religion. Dubious to argue, but if thats the argument then bringing religion back in w.r.t. Japan is wrong and he knew it.
    - sterlind 3y ago
      *she. I focused on religion because it's how eligibility for Aliyah is defined. you're Jewish if your mom was Jewish, either because her mom was Jewish or because she converted. there are Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews. those are all different races/ethnicities. specifically, Mizrahi Jews are ethnically Arab. so I disagree that race is the qualifier.

harimau777 3y ago

So wouldn't saying that Israel shouldn't be a Jewish state then be similar to saying that the United States shouldn't be a white state?

galahad_ 3y ago
The USA is a bad example because it does not have a basic ethnic group. A good parallel would be: "France should not be a French state" or "Ireland should not be an Irish state" or again "Japan should not be a Japanese state."
- harimau777 3y ago
  It seems to me that Israel has two basic ethnic groups, Jewish and Palestinian. I think that many people are objecting to the perception that they are favoring one of those groups.* I also think that many (most?) people would object to France, Ireland, or Japan favoring people who were ethnically or religiously French/Irish/Japanese. * Edit: I think that people are also objecting to the fact that many Palestinians don't have a place where they can be prosperous and debatably had their land stolen.
  - galahad_ 3y ago
    [flagged]