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> However they often come out lacking important skills that are needed. Companies that offer the jobs are the ones that need to offer the job training. > (I t

by duped 3y ago

> However they often come out lacking important skills that are needed. Companies that offer the jobs are the ones that need to offer the job training. > (I think this is the point you were trying to make?) Not really, it's that university education is kind of meta/self serving (the goal is not to train X number of students to do Y jobs, it's to give every student at the institution what that institution defines to be an education). But like you said, the fact this produces better workers is a second-order effect. It's not the goal of most institutions. But not all institutions; some define "well educated" to have lots of industry practicum, and if you want that, go study at those institutions. My main point is that it's not a "disservice" to eschew practicum or industry training as an educational institution.

bluGill 3y ago
What society needs is the second order effect though. I don't care about education for the sake of education, I can for what education can do for me/society. Now some of what most institutions define as a good education is good for society (the ability to think is very useful), but I don't value/support education because of arbitrary definitions that an institution might come up with. I value/support education because people who have education tend to show specific abilities in society that I want more people to have. The more universities are in line with that and try to produce that the more I value/support them. (note that I didn't not formally define what those things are - this is a tricky topic that I'm sure to get wrong if I tried!) When institutions allow student to take degrees that society finds less valuable (art,music...) they are doing society a disservice by not producing what society needs. Now if the student is wealthy (not rich) enough to afford that the price then I don't care: I don't need to impose my values on anyone else. However most people in a university are not that wealthy (most are young) and so if the degree granted isn't valuable to society the university robbed that student.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >When institutions allow student to take degrees that society finds less valuable (art,music...) they are doing society a disservice by not producing what society needs. 1. what's wrong with a student pursuing their own personal goals? A person doesn't need to produce for society's sake. 2. despite that sentiment you hold, it's clear many people do value art and music. Maybe not in its pure form, but those artists do in fact fuel industries worth billions. Clearly "society" values something that requires such skills and thinking.

by duped 3y ago

bluGill 3y ago

What society needs is the second order effect though. I don't care about education for the sake of education, I can for what education can do for me/society. Now some of what most institutions define as a good education is good for society (the ability to think is very useful), but I don't value/support education because of arbitrary definitions that an institution might come up with. I value/support education because people who have education tend to show specific abilities in society that I want more people to have. The more universities are in line with that and try to produce that the more I value/support them. (note that I didn't not formally define what those things are - this is a tricky topic that I'm sure to get wrong if I tried!) When institutions allow student to take degrees that society finds less valuable (art,music...) they are doing society a disservice by not producing what society needs. Now if the student is wealthy (not rich) enough to afford that the price then I don't care: I don't need to impose my values on anyone else. However most people in a university are not that wealthy (most are young) and so if the degree granted isn't valuable to society the university robbed that student.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
>When institutions allow student to take degrees that society finds less valuable (art,music...) they are doing society a disservice by not producing what society needs. 1. what's wrong with a student pursuing their own personal goals? A person doesn't need to produce for society's sake. 2. despite that sentiment you hold, it's clear many people do value art and music. Maybe not in its pure form, but those artists do in fact fuel industries worth billions. Clearly "society" values something that requires such skills and thinking.