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> I really struggle to believe anyone beyond a small minority even thought about Palestine or Israel before Oct 7. I grew up in the 1980s and recall intense fl

> I really struggle to believe anyone beyond a small minority even thought about Palestine or Israel before Oct 7. I grew up in the 1980s and recall intense flareups on this subject matter for as long as I can remember. The arrival of the Web and social media simply amplified them.

toyg 3y ago
This is the correct view. The Palestinian issue is a deeply-felt issue for a quarter of the world's population, give or take.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Are those population’s countries accepting Palestinian refugees?
  - toyg 3y ago
    The palestinian diaspora at this point is basically worldwide, which is somewhat ironic considering who caused it. This has little to do with the actual point, though.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      My point is it is deeply felt up to the point of actual sacrifice, either in the form of lives waging a war on behalf of Palestinians, or in the form of money re-homing them.
      - toyg 3y ago
        > My point is it is deeply felt up to the point of actual sacrifice Because otherwise it invalidates their opinion? So, are you ready to sacrifice yourself in the streets for Mr. Biden / Mr. Trump / Mr. Macron / Ms. LePen / etc etc, or to rehome the "victims" of their policies?
        lotsofpulp 3y ago
        >Because otherwise it invalidates their opinion? It provides some signal as to how “deeply” one (or a group) feels. >So, are you ready to sacrifice yourself in the streets for Mr. Biden / Mr. Trump / Mr. Macron / Ms. LePen / etc etc, or to rehome the "victims" of their policies? No, I do not deeply feel regarding this topic.
        toyg 3y ago
        > It provides some signal as to how “deeply” one (or a group) feels. Because refusing diplomatic and business relationships, repeatedly condemning Israeli actions in the largest international forums they have access to, demonstrating in the streets of their countries, jeopardizing relationships with the richest countries in the world because of this topic, etc etc, are not sufficient signals...? You can certainly criticize ambiguities in certain environments (e.g. Saudi rulers), but overall I don't think one can seriously challenge the depth of feeling on the matter when it's shared by literally billions of people. Maybe one doesn't get exposed to all that because most of these people are poor, living in poor countries that are largely ignored by the Western mainstream, but they are definitely there.
        gr48thecat 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - hypeit 3y ago
    A (further) removal of Palestinians from their land is the definition of ethnic cleansing, so no I would hope they wouldn't be supporting that.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      That is not how I would characterize giving a couple million Palestinians, who are apparently mostly kids, a better quality of life.
      - hypeit 3y ago
        Well, you would be wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
        lotsofpulp 3y ago
        [flagged]
        hypeit 3y ago
        If they're coordinating with Israel or making it so Israel can take Gaza, it is.
        lotsofpulp 3y ago
        In the same vein, leaving those poor people in Gaza in this purgatory where they will obviously never have enough power to fight for what they want/need is tragic too.
        hypeit 3y ago
        I don't know how many times you need to hear it, that is those people's home. You cannot kick people off of their home, even if you think it's "good for them".
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    Mmmm. It's not like the collective West (aside from USA) offered safe haven to Jews. We kinda just threw them into that corner of the world. The important issue here is the obviously shrinking pseudo-state of Palestine. The 1947 borders of Palestine have shifted dramatically in Israel's favor, but Israel continues to send settlers to the West Bank. --------- Hamas was wrong to attack Israel. But Israel is wrong to continue expanding its borders.
    - abnry 3y ago
      It is interesting to note there are about as many Jews in the US as there are in Israel. There are about 7.6 million Jews in the United States [1]. There are about 8 million Jews in Israel [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
      - woodruffw 3y ago
        The context for "safe haven" is the end of WW2. Most of America's Jews can date their arrival in the US before then; one of the most common windows is 1870 through 1920.
      - joecool1029 3y ago
        Not sure why that's relevant, same could be said of the Irish in Ireland vs. United States. On the topic though, there's only a few hundred Jews left in the first Jewish jurisdiction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast
        fmajid 3y ago
        Irish-Americans outnumber Irish-Irish nearly 10:1. For a very long time Jewish Americans outnumbered Israeli Jews, if not as lopsidedly. Around 1AD, the greatest concentration of Jewish people was Alexandria, Egypt, where they made up 1/3 the population, not Jerusalem. The actual history of the Middle East defies simplistic narratives.
  - nielsbot 3y ago
    Why should they? Why can't the Palestinians stay where they are? Or even better, return to their lands from which they were dispossessed? That would be the real way to support them.
  - instaeloq 3y ago
    Actually yes. Several of the neighbouring countries have taken in large numbers of Palestinian refugees over the years. Regardless of that point, it's not their responsibility to facilitate Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
  - lancesells 3y ago
    The sentiment of a portion of a country doesn't mean the governing body agrees. Even a majority portion doesn't always mean that their government is pro or anti refugees.
  - IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
    The Palestinians want their villages,lands & homes back. Instead they face a military occupation from a nuclear military state with weapons provided by the USA & funded to the tune of hundreds of billions. There already are large numbers of Palestinian refugees around the world. Ironically, the USA IS SPENDING BILLIONS on the war in Ukraine with nothing for the Palestinians.

toyg 3y ago

This is the correct view. The Palestinian issue is a deeply-felt issue for a quarter of the world's population, give or take.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
Are those population’s countries accepting Palestinian refugees?
- toyg 3y ago
  The palestinian diaspora at this point is basically worldwide, which is somewhat ironic considering who caused it. This has little to do with the actual point, though.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    My point is it is deeply felt up to the point of actual sacrifice, either in the form of lives waging a war on behalf of Palestinians, or in the form of money re-homing them.
    - toyg 3y ago
      > My point is it is deeply felt up to the point of actual sacrifice Because otherwise it invalidates their opinion? So, are you ready to sacrifice yourself in the streets for Mr. Biden / Mr. Trump / Mr. Macron / Ms. LePen / etc etc, or to rehome the "victims" of their policies?
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        >Because otherwise it invalidates their opinion? It provides some signal as to how “deeply” one (or a group) feels. >So, are you ready to sacrifice yourself in the streets for Mr. Biden / Mr. Trump / Mr. Macron / Ms. LePen / etc etc, or to rehome the "victims" of their policies? No, I do not deeply feel regarding this topic.
        toyg 3y ago
        > It provides some signal as to how “deeply” one (or a group) feels. Because refusing diplomatic and business relationships, repeatedly condemning Israeli actions in the largest international forums they have access to, demonstrating in the streets of their countries, jeopardizing relationships with the richest countries in the world because of this topic, etc etc, are not sufficient signals...? You can certainly criticize ambiguities in certain environments (e.g. Saudi rulers), but overall I don't think one can seriously challenge the depth of feeling on the matter when it's shared by literally billions of people. Maybe one doesn't get exposed to all that because most of these people are poor, living in poor countries that are largely ignored by the Western mainstream, but they are definitely there.
        gr48thecat 3y ago
        [flagged]
- hypeit 3y ago
  A (further) removal of Palestinians from their land is the definition of ethnic cleansing, so no I would hope they wouldn't be supporting that.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    That is not how I would characterize giving a couple million Palestinians, who are apparently mostly kids, a better quality of life.
    - hypeit 3y ago
      Well, you would be wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        [flagged]
        hypeit 3y ago
        If they're coordinating with Israel or making it so Israel can take Gaza, it is.
        lotsofpulp 3y ago
        In the same vein, leaving those poor people in Gaza in this purgatory where they will obviously never have enough power to fight for what they want/need is tragic too.
        hypeit 3y ago
        I don't know how many times you need to hear it, that is those people's home. You cannot kick people off of their home, even if you think it's "good for them".
- dragontamer 3y ago
  Mmmm. It's not like the collective West (aside from USA) offered safe haven to Jews. We kinda just threw them into that corner of the world. The important issue here is the obviously shrinking pseudo-state of Palestine. The 1947 borders of Palestine have shifted dramatically in Israel's favor, but Israel continues to send settlers to the West Bank. --------- Hamas was wrong to attack Israel. But Israel is wrong to continue expanding its borders.
  - abnry 3y ago
    It is interesting to note there are about as many Jews in the US as there are in Israel. There are about 7.6 million Jews in the United States [1]. There are about 8 million Jews in Israel [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
    - woodruffw 3y ago
      The context for "safe haven" is the end of WW2. Most of America's Jews can date their arrival in the US before then; one of the most common windows is 1870 through 1920.
    - joecool1029 3y ago
      Not sure why that's relevant, same could be said of the Irish in Ireland vs. United States. On the topic though, there's only a few hundred Jews left in the first Jewish jurisdiction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast
      - fmajid 3y ago
        Irish-Americans outnumber Irish-Irish nearly 10:1. For a very long time Jewish Americans outnumbered Israeli Jews, if not as lopsidedly. Around 1AD, the greatest concentration of Jewish people was Alexandria, Egypt, where they made up 1/3 the population, not Jerusalem. The actual history of the Middle East defies simplistic narratives.
- nielsbot 3y ago
  Why should they? Why can't the Palestinians stay where they are? Or even better, return to their lands from which they were dispossessed? That would be the real way to support them.
- instaeloq 3y ago
  Actually yes. Several of the neighbouring countries have taken in large numbers of Palestinian refugees over the years. Regardless of that point, it's not their responsibility to facilitate Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
- lancesells 3y ago
  The sentiment of a portion of a country doesn't mean the governing body agrees. Even a majority portion doesn't always mean that their government is pro or anti refugees.
- IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
  The Palestinians want their villages,lands & homes back. Instead they face a military occupation from a nuclear military state with weapons provided by the USA & funded to the tune of hundreds of billions. There already are large numbers of Palestinian refugees around the world. Ironically, the USA IS SPENDING BILLIONS on the war in Ukraine with nothing for the Palestinians.