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This article, more than making me feel one way or another about the particular issue at hand (Isreal Hamas) makes me speculate what other unknown, better coordi

This article, more than making me feel one way or another about the particular issue at hand (Isreal Hamas) makes me speculate what other unknown, better coordinated, better funded, interest groups might be doing this sort of thing on a massive scale. I'm reminded of the "Come out - we have you surrounded" meme where the mentally insane man is hiding behind a desk with a shotgun screaming "Get out of my head" or "I hate the Antichrist", because that's how thinking about these groups make me feel

ristlane 3y ago
[flagged]
- hypeit 3y ago
  No, when capital coordinates people get worried and rightfully so. There are a lot of non Jewish Zionists, just as there are a lot of Jewish non-Zionists. In our industry, the VCs are overwhelmingly Zionist while the rest of the industry is non-Zionist and it's the Zionists that are getting people fired and blacklisted.
  - quonn 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - mandmandam 3y ago
      https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1733146138226614465 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1733146138226614465 Plenty of examples wrapped up in a short well sourced tweet. Enjoy.
    - __loam 3y ago
      There are ample articles in reputable publications like the financial times discussing how pro-israel many of the country's business leaders are. Many of these people are going out of their way to blacklist students who have publicly expressed pro-palestinian views from positions at prestigious law firms (and to be fair, some of those comments were very incindiery). But many of them have gone further, threatening universities who don't kick pro-palestinian groups off campus with pulled donations. Israel also notably has close ties with the American business community, with some calling them "start up nation". https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/11/business/harvard-israel-hamas-ceos-students/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/11/business/harvard-israel-h...
- shihab 3y ago
  This article is not about Jews co-ordinating, it's about foreign govt agents in military uniforms coordinating with powerful sillicon valley leaders to punish, among other things, American citizens for holding wrong-think.
- Boogie_Man 3y ago
  I legitimately don't understand what you're trying to imply. As far as I can tell it's a very indirect attempt to imply that people "having a nerve struck" over "Jews coordinating", are bad in a nonspecific way. Can you state more clearly what you mean so I can consider it?
  - ajb 3y ago
    Not the op, but "Jews secretly controlling xxx" where xxx is finance, the news, etc is a common, and very antisemitic, meme. I think the article is probably just pro Palestinian, but the fact that it's examining only propaganda on one side and not the other, even though there will be the same kind of operation on both sides because there always is, make s me also a bit suspicious of it.
    - Boogie_Man 3y ago
      I hear what you're saying, thank you for clarifying for op. I think there is a logical jump from coordinating to controlling in this instance. The article doesn't say "The Jews control the media", but rather "Here are documented instances of pro-Israeli people in positions of power coordinating to do X Y or Z". I can understand that it might seem like an attack on Israel itself, and that an attack on Israel might actually be the intended purpose of the reporting, but it's hard for me to prioritize that over the importance of honest reporting of this sort. It's journalism that is informative and relevant, and that seems to be angering powerful people. I would like a companion peace on the propaganda war from "the other side", but this is the only one available to me at the moment. Fostering an environment in which this sort of journalism can safely be done is critical.
- mmcwilliams 3y ago
  It's very unfair to say that the reaction to this is because of "the Jews" and not because a close US ally who has much of the support of its military and intelligence apparatus at its disposal is doing this.
neom 3y ago
It's very interesting to me that a large new org (say BBC, DW, CBC whatever) will publish some YouTube video report about some political subject (Canada and India, Ukraine and Russia, Taiwan and China), and within 15 minutes the video has a comments section containing 200+ posts in a very obvious direction. Are 100s of Canadians really awake at 5am posting on a BBC video about Canadian support for Ukraine 15 minutes after it was posted? Are 100s of Taiwanese people really awake at 3am commenting on a DW video about China-Taiwan relations? 15 minutes after it was posted? I can't tell if I've become paranoid over the last 4/5 years or if it's real, but it seems so stark to me how intense manipulation on platforms is, be it YouTube, TikTok, or Instagram.
- Boogie_Man 3y ago
  I shift from making myself not think about it to becoming a complete paranoid nut to telling myself it probably isn't so bad and doesn't matter a few times a year. There are levels to this sort of thinking, and it exists on a spectrum. I think everyone can agree on a conceptual level that manipulation occurs. A basic, mostly harmless example would be a music star "organically going viral" and "being discovered as a result" not being quite as organic as it seems. Where it changes from healthy skepticism to paranoia is a line I struggle to draw personally.
pphysch 3y ago
I don't think there is a more potent example right now than the Israel Lobby. The Holocaust and Hitler basically define modern Western morality, and Zionism's claims to legitimacy are closely related to those concepts. Associating someone with "Hitler" or "antisemitic" is worse than calling them "bin Laden" or "slavemaster". Other popular foreign lobbies in Washington, from Ukrainian, Taiwanese, Kurds, Uyghurs, don't have nearly the same influence.
- mk89 3y ago
  Saying this as a person that typically doesn't care at all about these things: you can't possibly compare Hitler to Bin Laden. The first is definitely worse - and I am sorry for people who lost family or friends in 9/11. But he was way worse. The guy started a world war, he literally killed dozens of millions of civilians and made life shi*ier for everyone on this planet. What he and his crew did to people, to society, and everything else - books have been written so that we hopefully, as humanity, won't repeat again.
john-radio 3y ago
> what other unknown, better coordinated, better funded, interest groups might be doing this sort of thing on a massive scale. There is no better-coordinated or -funded lobbying group than the military-industrial complex, which is, of course, all in on Israel.

ristlane 3y ago

[flagged]

hypeit 3y ago
No, when capital coordinates people get worried and rightfully so. There are a lot of non Jewish Zionists, just as there are a lot of Jewish non-Zionists. In our industry, the VCs are overwhelmingly Zionist while the rest of the industry is non-Zionist and it's the Zionists that are getting people fired and blacklisted.
- quonn 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1733146138226614465 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1733146138226614465 Plenty of examples wrapped up in a short well sourced tweet. Enjoy.
  - __loam 3y ago
    There are ample articles in reputable publications like the financial times discussing how pro-israel many of the country's business leaders are. Many of these people are going out of their way to blacklist students who have publicly expressed pro-palestinian views from positions at prestigious law firms (and to be fair, some of those comments were very incindiery). But many of them have gone further, threatening universities who don't kick pro-palestinian groups off campus with pulled donations. Israel also notably has close ties with the American business community, with some calling them "start up nation". https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/11/business/harvard-israel-hamas-ceos-students/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/11/business/harvard-israel-h...
shihab 3y ago
This article is not about Jews co-ordinating, it's about foreign govt agents in military uniforms coordinating with powerful sillicon valley leaders to punish, among other things, American citizens for holding wrong-think.
Boogie_Man 3y ago
I legitimately don't understand what you're trying to imply. As far as I can tell it's a very indirect attempt to imply that people "having a nerve struck" over "Jews coordinating", are bad in a nonspecific way. Can you state more clearly what you mean so I can consider it?
- ajb 3y ago
  Not the op, but "Jews secretly controlling xxx" where xxx is finance, the news, etc is a common, and very antisemitic, meme. I think the article is probably just pro Palestinian, but the fact that it's examining only propaganda on one side and not the other, even though there will be the same kind of operation on both sides because there always is, make s me also a bit suspicious of it.
  - Boogie_Man 3y ago
    I hear what you're saying, thank you for clarifying for op. I think there is a logical jump from coordinating to controlling in this instance. The article doesn't say "The Jews control the media", but rather "Here are documented instances of pro-Israeli people in positions of power coordinating to do X Y or Z". I can understand that it might seem like an attack on Israel itself, and that an attack on Israel might actually be the intended purpose of the reporting, but it's hard for me to prioritize that over the importance of honest reporting of this sort. It's journalism that is informative and relevant, and that seems to be angering powerful people. I would like a companion peace on the propaganda war from "the other side", but this is the only one available to me at the moment. Fostering an environment in which this sort of journalism can safely be done is critical.
mmcwilliams 3y ago
It's very unfair to say that the reaction to this is because of "the Jews" and not because a close US ally who has much of the support of its military and intelligence apparatus at its disposal is doing this.

neom 3y ago

It's very interesting to me that a large new org (say BBC, DW, CBC whatever) will publish some YouTube video report about some political subject (Canada and India, Ukraine and Russia, Taiwan and China), and within 15 minutes the video has a comments section containing 200+ posts in a very obvious direction. Are 100s of Canadians really awake at 5am posting on a BBC video about Canadian support for Ukraine 15 minutes after it was posted? Are 100s of Taiwanese people really awake at 3am commenting on a DW video about China-Taiwan relations? 15 minutes after it was posted? I can't tell if I've become paranoid over the last 4/5 years or if it's real, but it seems so stark to me how intense manipulation on platforms is, be it YouTube, TikTok, or Instagram.

Boogie_Man 3y ago
I shift from making myself not think about it to becoming a complete paranoid nut to telling myself it probably isn't so bad and doesn't matter a few times a year. There are levels to this sort of thinking, and it exists on a spectrum. I think everyone can agree on a conceptual level that manipulation occurs. A basic, mostly harmless example would be a music star "organically going viral" and "being discovered as a result" not being quite as organic as it seems. Where it changes from healthy skepticism to paranoia is a line I struggle to draw personally.

pphysch 3y ago

I don't think there is a more potent example right now than the Israel Lobby. The Holocaust and Hitler basically define modern Western morality, and Zionism's claims to legitimacy are closely related to those concepts. Associating someone with "Hitler" or "antisemitic" is worse than calling them "bin Laden" or "slavemaster". Other popular foreign lobbies in Washington, from Ukrainian, Taiwanese, Kurds, Uyghurs, don't have nearly the same influence.

mk89 3y ago
Saying this as a person that typically doesn't care at all about these things: you can't possibly compare Hitler to Bin Laden. The first is definitely worse - and I am sorry for people who lost family or friends in 9/11. But he was way worse. The guy started a world war, he literally killed dozens of millions of civilians and made life shi*ier for everyone on this planet. What he and his crew did to people, to society, and everything else - books have been written so that we hopefully, as humanity, won't repeat again.

john-radio 3y ago

> what other unknown, better coordinated, better funded, interest groups might be doing this sort of thing on a massive scale. There is no better-coordinated or -funded lobbying group than the military-industrial complex, which is, of course, all in on Israel.