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Another possible explanation for this skew is that TikTok and IG are primarily video platforms. The videos of destruction and death in Gaza are far more horrif

Another possible explanation for this skew is that TikTok and IG are primarily video platforms. The videos of destruction and death in Gaza are far more horrific than corresponding videos in Israel, because the scale of what Israel is doing to Gaza is so much greater than what Gaza has done to Israel. Another way of saying it is, it makes sense that someone who spends hours on apps optimized for empathy-based addiction would be more sympathetic to Gazans than someone who reads the newspaper or watches talking heads on TV news, since the latter portray the occupation as a two-sided tit for tat.

wk_end 3y ago
It's also the nature of the violence. It's generally acceptable to show shots of bombed-out buildings and the like, or even display injured or dead bodies. The footage we and Israel have from Hamas depicts first-hand murder, rape and torture - all things which are going to violate TOS.
- KittenInABox 3y ago
  I'm confused when you say that its acceptable to display injured or dead bodies, and yet its violating TOS to display murder or torture. The photo of a murder vs a photo of a bombed body is not something I understand to be distinctly different nor something that would be able to be detected by the algorithm. [Small addition: I've actually seen videos of (alleged) hamas torture, particularly the torture and killing of a specific woman, from Oct 7, not taken down from TOS. I just was under the impression, because there are literally more Palestinian dead people, there will be more photos of dead Palestinians.] [Edited to add, since I'm apparently posting too fast: no, I really do mean there were censored videos of that naked woman in the back of a hamas truck from Oct 7! And that one video of an Israeli woman who lives close enough to the bombing that she can hear it in the context that it gives her peace to know the bombing is happening!]
  - wk_end 3y ago
    Why are you talking about photos? The word "footage" refers to video, and I was replying to a post which said specifically (emphasis mine): > Another possible explanation for this skew is that TikTok and IG are primarily *video* platforms [...] The *videos* of destruction and death in Gaza are far more horrific than corresponding *videos* in Israel TikTok's "Community Guidelines" [0] read: > We do not allow gory, gruesome, disturbing, or extremely violent content. If a video depicting torture and killing wasn't taken down, either the poor moderators stuck viewing all this stuff just hadn't gotten to it yet or it was a failure in some way to enforce the TOS; not an indication that the TOS allows it. [0] https://www.tiktok.com/community-guidelines/en/sensitive-mature-themes/#4 https://www.tiktok.com/community-guidelines/en/sensitive-mat...
- cies 3y ago
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    - waffleiron 3y ago
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        deleted 3y ago
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  - theli0nheart 3y ago
    Here's one: https://www.october7.org/ https://www.october7.org/ And another: https://oct7map.com/ https://oct7map.com/
    - cies 3y ago
      Its not showing any proof of things happened of that nature. We know now that a lot of the 1100+ that died in the oct7 attack were IDF. That the IDF shot at festival goes indiscriminately from attack helicopters. That the 40 babies story was a lie. So how many civilliants died on oct7 at the hands of Hamas? Also, how is hostage taking different is Hamas does it? Because a lot of the palestinian prisoners exchanged where (a) not subjected to trial, and (b) children. Hamas takes prisoners = hostages; Israel takes prisoners = security measures (of what ever euphemism you like).
      - theli0nheart 3y ago
- rowanseymour 3y ago
  Rape and torture were not featured [1] in the recent propaganda movie Israel screened to select people in the West, so there's no reason to believe such footage exists. 1. https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1729487180630786219 https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1729487180630786219
  - wk_end 3y ago
    That's possible. I'm aware that Hamas filmed much of what they did, and that they committed rape and torture in addition to murder; I'm not aware of the contents of much of the footage available because I'm, frankly, too squeamish to seek it out or watch it myself. Do you think this substantively detracts from my overall point, though?
    - megous 3y ago
      What's available that I've seen falls into several categories: - Uniformed Gazan fighters (not just Hamas/Al-Qasam, but also PIJ's Saraya Al-Quds, PFLP and some others) breaking the fence infrastructure (cams, remote controlled sentry gun towers, fence walls, fence itself, drone footage, preparations the night before - it shows that fighters of various groups commingled quite a bit). Fighters attacking Israel's military installations (border crossings, destroying some stationary military vehicles not manned at the time, etc.) - Gazan fighters running around, or riding on motorcycles and pickup trucks, shooting at people and vehicles from small arms, and kidnapping people. This is the bulk of actual action in available footage. - Footage of masses going from Gaza and looting settlements in Gaza envelope. - Some grenade throwing into enclosed spaces with people inside. - Almost no footage of fighters fighting with Israel army's armor, almost no footage of torture. - No footage of child killings (there's some footage where only parents were killed and children left living). Small children were ~1% of killed victims on Oct 7, so lack of footage is not surprising. - IDF killing a group of people that was apparently surrendering. - Videos of IDF attack helicopters shooting at crowds of people and cars. Footage of aftermath: - Lots of footage of dead, burned bodies, either in cars or in houses. It's not clear who these people are a lot of the time, or who caused the fire, or how they died. (Israel overcounted its casualties by ~2 hundreds, due to misidentification of burned bodies.) - At least 7 videos of corpse abuse by Israelis in the aftermath. Oftentimes it's clear who's doing what, whether fighters or mob. Sometimes it's not. Lot of "barbarity" of "Hamas" as portrayed in the media or even by some politicians, is made up/overblown (oven baked babies, 40 beheaded babies, children/people collected together tied and burned alive intentionally, ...). It seems to be designed to show that Hamas is way different in humanity than IDF, or whatnot, but it just ends up throwing doubt on other eyewitness descriptions of gruesome things that may be truthful. There's an article in Haaretz about this problem: https://archive.ph/2023.12.03-221527/https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-12-03/ty-article-magazine/.premium/0000018c-2036-d21c-abae-76be08fe0000 https://archive.ph/2023.12.03-221527/https://www.haaretz.co....
riku_iki 3y ago
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proc0 3y ago
> The videos of destruction and death in Gaza are far more horrific than corresponding videos in Israel Maybe you haven't seen enough of what happened in 10/7 then. I would rather get hit by a bomb then tortured to death in the most horrific way possible.
- digging 3y ago
  Would you rather get tortured to death horrifically or have your closest 200 relatives crushed to death in the rubble of everything they own? If we're comparing experiences, this might be a more typical choice.
  - proc0 3y ago
    That's pivoting from the experience of one person to comparing deaths in numbers. If we talk about the ratio we'll then need to include a bunch of other factors to explain it because it's not as simple as comparing experiences at the individual's level.
    - digging 3y ago
      No, it's not. Having one's family exterminated is also a personal experience. This has happened to actual living Palestinians. Perhaps it's difficult to believe, which is why I thought it was an important experience to include.
- bjourne 3y ago
  As of right now there are likely hundreds or thousands of Palestinians trapped under the rubble of their houses slowly suffocating or dying of dehydration. A process that takes days or weeks.
  - proc0 3y ago
    Nobody said that about the Germans during WW2, so I guess the disagreement is how bad the Hamas guys are. And also we can't let them prove themselves to be as bad as the Nazis (if we start comparing numbers), it's about preventing it.
dotancohen 3y ago
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- rendall 3y ago
  My deepest condolences. Words fail.
  - mhalberstram 3y ago
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    - dotancohen 3y ago
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      - rendall 3y ago
        My condolences again. I'm neither Israeli nor Jewish, and I don't personally know anyone directly affected by the attack (as far as I know), but what makes this attack particularly nightmarish for me personally is the world reaction. One can expect indifference. It's far away, another awful atrocity among so many, whatever. But to aggressively, actively deny. Aggressively, actively assume the worst about the victims. To publish long-form articles on the ways the Jewish-oops-Zionist-cabal "control the narrative" and then see that article show up here on the front page of HN. To see the founder of YC tweet out snarky comments like "Its a grim day 31 Israeli children and thousands of Palestinian children are dead". Ivy league students, professors chanting for genocide of Jews, and their Presidents' equivocate before the nation and the world about whether this is harassment. HRW, having an opportunity to unequivocally condemn an atrocity of such depravity, instead both-sides it as if Israel is somehow complicit. Everyone completely ignoring whatever Israel explains about its actions as obvious lies without actually doing the work of falsification. And even here, where a simple human offering of condolence gets some nasty denizen making nasty accusations. What is nightmarish to me is how deep the rot goes. So, my condolences to you and the families for the children and other victims. My condolences extends to the world at large. There is a loss is innocence here, for me. But Israelis do have rock solid allies out here.

wk_end 3y ago

It's also the nature of the violence. It's generally acceptable to show shots of bombed-out buildings and the like, or even display injured or dead bodies. The footage we and Israel have from Hamas depicts first-hand murder, rape and torture - all things which are going to violate TOS.

KittenInABox 3y ago
I'm confused when you say that its acceptable to display injured or dead bodies, and yet its violating TOS to display murder or torture. The photo of a murder vs a photo of a bombed body is not something I understand to be distinctly different nor something that would be able to be detected by the algorithm. [Small addition: I've actually seen videos of (alleged) hamas torture, particularly the torture and killing of a specific woman, from Oct 7, not taken down from TOS. I just was under the impression, because there are literally more Palestinian dead people, there will be more photos of dead Palestinians.] [Edited to add, since I'm apparently posting too fast: no, I really do mean there were censored videos of that naked woman in the back of a hamas truck from Oct 7! And that one video of an Israeli woman who lives close enough to the bombing that she can hear it in the context that it gives her peace to know the bombing is happening!]
- wk_end 3y ago
  Why are you talking about photos? The word "footage" refers to video, and I was replying to a post which said specifically (emphasis mine): > Another possible explanation for this skew is that TikTok and IG are primarily *video* platforms [...] The *videos* of destruction and death in Gaza are far more horrific than corresponding *videos* in Israel TikTok's "Community Guidelines" [0] read: > We do not allow gory, gruesome, disturbing, or extremely violent content. If a video depicting torture and killing wasn't taken down, either the poor moderators stuck viewing all this stuff just hadn't gotten to it yet or it was a failure in some way to enforce the TOS; not an indication that the TOS allows it. [0] https://www.tiktok.com/community-guidelines/en/sensitive-mature-themes/#4 https://www.tiktok.com/community-guidelines/en/sensitive-mat...
cies 3y ago
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- chromeunagi 3y ago
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  - waffleiron 3y ago
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    - chromeunagi 3y ago
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      - deleted 3y ago
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- theli0nheart 3y ago
  Here's one: https://www.october7.org/ https://www.october7.org/ And another: https://oct7map.com/ https://oct7map.com/
  - cies 3y ago
    Its not showing any proof of things happened of that nature. We know now that a lot of the 1100+ that died in the oct7 attack were IDF. That the IDF shot at festival goes indiscriminately from attack helicopters. That the 40 babies story was a lie. So how many civilliants died on oct7 at the hands of Hamas? Also, how is hostage taking different is Hamas does it? Because a lot of the palestinian prisoners exchanged where (a) not subjected to trial, and (b) children. Hamas takes prisoners = hostages; Israel takes prisoners = security measures (of what ever euphemism you like).
    - theli0nheart 3y ago
rowanseymour 3y ago
Rape and torture were not featured [1] in the recent propaganda movie Israel screened to select people in the West, so there's no reason to believe such footage exists. 1. https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1729487180630786219 https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1729487180630786219
- wk_end 3y ago
  That's possible. I'm aware that Hamas filmed much of what they did, and that they committed rape and torture in addition to murder; I'm not aware of the contents of much of the footage available because I'm, frankly, too squeamish to seek it out or watch it myself. Do you think this substantively detracts from my overall point, though?
  - megous 3y ago
    What's available that I've seen falls into several categories: - Uniformed Gazan fighters (not just Hamas/Al-Qasam, but also PIJ's Saraya Al-Quds, PFLP and some others) breaking the fence infrastructure (cams, remote controlled sentry gun towers, fence walls, fence itself, drone footage, preparations the night before - it shows that fighters of various groups commingled quite a bit). Fighters attacking Israel's military installations (border crossings, destroying some stationary military vehicles not manned at the time, etc.) - Gazan fighters running around, or riding on motorcycles and pickup trucks, shooting at people and vehicles from small arms, and kidnapping people. This is the bulk of actual action in available footage. - Footage of masses going from Gaza and looting settlements in Gaza envelope. - Some grenade throwing into enclosed spaces with people inside. - Almost no footage of fighters fighting with Israel army's armor, almost no footage of torture. - No footage of child killings (there's some footage where only parents were killed and children left living). Small children were ~1% of killed victims on Oct 7, so lack of footage is not surprising. - IDF killing a group of people that was apparently surrendering. - Videos of IDF attack helicopters shooting at crowds of people and cars. Footage of aftermath: - Lots of footage of dead, burned bodies, either in cars or in houses. It's not clear who these people are a lot of the time, or who caused the fire, or how they died. (Israel overcounted its casualties by ~2 hundreds, due to misidentification of burned bodies.) - At least 7 videos of corpse abuse by Israelis in the aftermath. Oftentimes it's clear who's doing what, whether fighters or mob. Sometimes it's not. Lot of "barbarity" of "Hamas" as portrayed in the media or even by some politicians, is made up/overblown (oven baked babies, 40 beheaded babies, children/people collected together tied and burned alive intentionally, ...). It seems to be designed to show that Hamas is way different in humanity than IDF, or whatnot, but it just ends up throwing doubt on other eyewitness descriptions of gruesome things that may be truthful. There's an article in Haaretz about this problem: https://archive.ph/2023.12.03-221527/https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-12-03/ty-article-magazine/.premium/0000018c-2036-d21c-abae-76be08fe0000 https://archive.ph/2023.12.03-221527/https://www.haaretz.co....

riku_iki 3y ago

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proc0 3y ago

> The videos of destruction and death in Gaza are far more horrific than corresponding videos in Israel Maybe you haven't seen enough of what happened in 10/7 then. I would rather get hit by a bomb then tortured to death in the most horrific way possible.

digging 3y ago
Would you rather get tortured to death horrifically or have your closest 200 relatives crushed to death in the rubble of everything they own? If we're comparing experiences, this might be a more typical choice.
- proc0 3y ago
  That's pivoting from the experience of one person to comparing deaths in numbers. If we talk about the ratio we'll then need to include a bunch of other factors to explain it because it's not as simple as comparing experiences at the individual's level.
  - digging 3y ago
    No, it's not. Having one's family exterminated is also a personal experience. This has happened to actual living Palestinians. Perhaps it's difficult to believe, which is why I thought it was an important experience to include.
bjourne 3y ago
As of right now there are likely hundreds or thousands of Palestinians trapped under the rubble of their houses slowly suffocating or dying of dehydration. A process that takes days or weeks.
- proc0 3y ago
  Nobody said that about the Germans during WW2, so I guess the disagreement is how bad the Hamas guys are. And also we can't let them prove themselves to be as bad as the Nazis (if we start comparing numbers), it's about preventing it.

dotancohen 3y ago

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rendall 3y ago
My deepest condolences. Words fail.
- mhalberstram 3y ago
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  - dotancohen 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - rendall 3y ago
      My condolences again. I'm neither Israeli nor Jewish, and I don't personally know anyone directly affected by the attack (as far as I know), but what makes this attack particularly nightmarish for me personally is the world reaction. One can expect indifference. It's far away, another awful atrocity among so many, whatever. But to aggressively, actively deny. Aggressively, actively assume the worst about the victims. To publish long-form articles on the ways the Jewish-oops-Zionist-cabal "control the narrative" and then see that article show up here on the front page of HN. To see the founder of YC tweet out snarky comments like "Its a grim day 31 Israeli children and thousands of Palestinian children are dead". Ivy league students, professors chanting for genocide of Jews, and their Presidents' equivocate before the nation and the world about whether this is harassment. HRW, having an opportunity to unequivocally condemn an atrocity of such depravity, instead both-sides it as if Israel is somehow complicit. Everyone completely ignoring whatever Israel explains about its actions as obvious lies without actually doing the work of falsification. And even here, where a simple human offering of condolence gets some nasty denizen making nasty accusations. What is nightmarish to me is how deep the rot goes. So, my condolences to you and the families for the children and other victims. My condolences extends to the world at large. There is a loss is innocence here, for me. But Israelis do have rock solid allies out here.