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>>and everyone is happy Except for the cars trucks and busses.. you know the ones who actually pay for such infrastructure. I would be more okay with such thin

>>and everyone is happy Except for the cars trucks and busses.. you know the ones who actually pay for such infrastructure. I would be more okay with such things if they separated the costs and made the bike lanes tolled or funded by bicycle registration. But that doesn’t solve the problem of what the displaced motor vehicle traffic does when they now have less lanes of travel on which is divert to neighboring streets which causes other problems.

thatfrenchguy 3y ago
This is San Francisco, my property taxes pay for the roads. There’s a parallel 4 lane road a block away.
estebank 3y ago
> you know the ones who actually pay for such infrastructure Do you have a citation or is this something that "feels true"? > I would be more okay with such things if they separated the costs and made the bike lanes tolled or funded by bicycle registration. That would be great to implement! I think you would be surprised at the result, though.
eesmith 3y ago
> the ones who actually pay for such infrastructure Motor vehicle user fees pay for less than half of the road infrastructure. Everyone is paying for the roads through property taxes. (Even if indirectly through rent.) Many people with a bicycle also have a car. Cars require significantly more space than bicycles, cause more road wear, and car crashes tend to require more from emergency services than bike crashes, so any fees for bikes should be scaled appropriately - and remember that those without a motor vehicle are already contributing to road infrastructure. Motor vehicle traffic isn't a fixed value. If it's harder to drive somewhere, fewer people will drive. Sometimes removing traffic lanes increases traffic capacity. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/4/18/mr-go https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/4/18/mr-go
masklinn 3y ago
> Except for the cars trucks and busses.. you know the ones who actually pay for such infrastructure. That is utter nonsense. Most of the infrastructure is paid for via the general funds. US gas taxes are laughably low, and the federal gas tax (supposed to pay for highways) has not been raised since 1993, so its value effectively halved since it was last raised. The highest gas tax in the US is a combined 70c/gal.
- masklinn 3y ago
  Oh and far from paying for the infrastructure, trucks are subsidised to use it, by everybody else, very much including bikers Trucks are the biggest source of road damage by a very long shot (3 orders of magnitude per mile driven) and don't pay anywhere near that. Trucks would have to pay at least 2 orders of magnitude higher gas taxes than cars to come anywhere near a fair share, and that's assuming an order of magnitude difference in mileage (in a linear unit, not mpg), which is not the case unless you have an extremely efficient car and a very inefficient truck.

thatfrenchguy 3y ago

This is San Francisco, my property taxes pay for the roads. There’s a parallel 4 lane road a block away.

estebank 3y ago

> you know the ones who actually pay for such infrastructure Do you have a citation or is this something that "feels true"? > I would be more okay with such things if they separated the costs and made the bike lanes tolled or funded by bicycle registration. That would be great to implement! I think you would be surprised at the result, though.

eesmith 3y ago

> the ones who actually pay for such infrastructure Motor vehicle user fees pay for less than half of the road infrastructure. Everyone is paying for the roads through property taxes. (Even if indirectly through rent.) Many people with a bicycle also have a car. Cars require significantly more space than bicycles, cause more road wear, and car crashes tend to require more from emergency services than bike crashes, so any fees for bikes should be scaled appropriately - and remember that those without a motor vehicle are already contributing to road infrastructure. Motor vehicle traffic isn't a fixed value. If it's harder to drive somewhere, fewer people will drive. Sometimes removing traffic lanes increases traffic capacity. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/4/18/mr-go https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/4/18/mr-go

masklinn 3y ago

> Except for the cars trucks and busses.. you know the ones who actually pay for such infrastructure. That is utter nonsense. Most of the infrastructure is paid for via the general funds. US gas taxes are laughably low, and the federal gas tax (supposed to pay for highways) has not been raised since 1993, so its value effectively halved since it was last raised. The highest gas tax in the US is a combined 70c/gal.

masklinn 3y ago
Oh and far from paying for the infrastructure, trucks are subsidised to use it, by everybody else, very much including bikers Trucks are the biggest source of road damage by a very long shot (3 orders of magnitude per mile driven) and don't pay anywhere near that. Trucks would have to pay at least 2 orders of magnitude higher gas taxes than cars to come anywhere near a fair share, and that's assuming an order of magnitude difference in mileage (in a linear unit, not mpg), which is not the case unless you have an extremely efficient car and a very inefficient truck.