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There are Computer Engineering programs and a few universities that really emphasize internships and hands on practice. But at many universities, the CS departm

There are Computer Engineering programs and a few universities that really emphasize internships and hands on practice. But at many universities, the CS department came out of the Math department and is focused on theory. Chemistry isn't Chemical Engineering either. I think that's okay. University isn't just a trade school--the idea behind almost any degree is to train the mind and demonstrate an ability to master complex material.

timeagain 3y ago
Yeah but at those internships you aren’t taught how to build quality software, just how to ship a SPA that connects to an API in 15 weeks (or you’re not hired). It is a good peek into the professional software world though!
- bluGill 3y ago
  Before you can write quality software you need to be able to write large software. Most interns I see are learning how to work on non-trivial programs as this is their first chance to see something non-trivial. Then they get a "real job" and are shoved into extremely large programs. Writing a thousand lines of bug free code isn't that hard, so the need for QA practices won't be apparent. Then you get the ten thousand line intern project and discover things are not always that easy. Then we throw you into a multi-million line project and good luck: you need a lot of that QA stuff to make it work.
bluGill 3y ago
What society needs is a mix of trade school a traditional university. If a university is not providing both they are failing everyone. (except the straw-man rich kid who will inherit a lot of money but not be expected to either also inherit/run a company or pass the money onto their kids - this is something that happens in story books but doesn't seem to be real world where the rich give their kids lots of advantages but eventually expect them to take over and run the family business) A pure university education without considering is this degree useful in the real world is a disservice to education. However a pure trade school education that teaches how to do something without understanding is not useful (I don't think any trade school is that pure: they tell you to ignore hard stuff but generally give you deep understanding of some important things)
- duped 3y ago
  > If a university is not providing both they are failing everyone. Why? > A pure university education without considering is this degree useful in the real world is a disservice to education. I think this line of thinking is a much bigger disservice to higher education. It was very tiresome as an undergraduate to be surrounded by people that thought this way - and detrimental to everyone's education. "I'll never use this knowledge" is the single worst thing you can say as a student, and it needs to be beaten out of undergrads' heads. Not encouraged.
  - sneed_chucker 3y ago
    I agree with you in principle, but it's very easy to have this attitude when the education isn't obscenely expensive. Which is why the "I'm never going to use this, what a waste of time" feeling among American undergrad students is so common. If you fix the affordability problem and bring it back to where is was in the mid 70s (inflation adjusted) I think things would be a lot better.
    - duped 3y ago
      My point is that higher education isn't job training and doesn't pretend to be, and people who think it is or should are the ones that need education the most because they don't seem to get it.
      - Clubber 3y ago
        >My point is that higher education isn't job training and doesn't pretend to be, and people who think it is or should are the ones that need education the most because they don't seem to get it. That was true 50 years ago, but employers turned it into job training. My father in law retired a well off businessman with a History degree from Yale he got in the 50s. You know what a History degree from Yale qualifies you for today? Teaching History and maybe writing some books. The degree didn't change and Yale didn't change.
      - sanderjd 3y ago

timeagain 3y ago

Yeah but at those internships you aren’t taught how to build quality software, just how to ship a SPA that connects to an API in 15 weeks (or you’re not hired). It is a good peek into the professional software world though!

bluGill 3y ago
Before you can write quality software you need to be able to write large software. Most interns I see are learning how to work on non-trivial programs as this is their first chance to see something non-trivial. Then they get a "real job" and are shoved into extremely large programs. Writing a thousand lines of bug free code isn't that hard, so the need for QA practices won't be apparent. Then you get the ten thousand line intern project and discover things are not always that easy. Then we throw you into a multi-million line project and good luck: you need a lot of that QA stuff to make it work.

bluGill 3y ago

What society needs is a mix of trade school a traditional university. If a university is not providing both they are failing everyone. (except the straw-man rich kid who will inherit a lot of money but not be expected to either also inherit/run a company or pass the money onto their kids - this is something that happens in story books but doesn't seem to be real world where the rich give their kids lots of advantages but eventually expect them to take over and run the family business) A pure university education without considering is this degree useful in the real world is a disservice to education. However a pure trade school education that teaches how to do something without understanding is not useful (I don't think any trade school is that pure: they tell you to ignore hard stuff but generally give you deep understanding of some important things)

duped 3y ago
> If a university is not providing both they are failing everyone. Why? > A pure university education without considering is this degree useful in the real world is a disservice to education. I think this line of thinking is a much bigger disservice to higher education. It was very tiresome as an undergraduate to be surrounded by people that thought this way - and detrimental to everyone's education. "I'll never use this knowledge" is the single worst thing you can say as a student, and it needs to be beaten out of undergrads' heads. Not encouraged.
- sneed_chucker 3y ago
  I agree with you in principle, but it's very easy to have this attitude when the education isn't obscenely expensive. Which is why the "I'm never going to use this, what a waste of time" feeling among American undergrad students is so common. If you fix the affordability problem and bring it back to where is was in the mid 70s (inflation adjusted) I think things would be a lot better.
  - duped 3y ago
    My point is that higher education isn't job training and doesn't pretend to be, and people who think it is or should are the ones that need education the most because they don't seem to get it.
    - Clubber 3y ago
      >My point is that higher education isn't job training and doesn't pretend to be, and people who think it is or should are the ones that need education the most because they don't seem to get it. That was true 50 years ago, but employers turned it into job training. My father in law retired a well off businessman with a History degree from Yale he got in the 50s. You know what a History degree from Yale qualifies you for today? Teaching History and maybe writing some books. The degree didn't change and Yale didn't change.
    - sanderjd 3y ago