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It’s easy to avoid actions like this: Sign a collective bargain with a union and all unions are bound to leave you at peace for that agreements duration. So f

It’s easy to avoid actions like this: Sign a collective bargain with a union and all unions are bound to leave you at peace for that agreements duration. So far two international companies have refused this: Toys R Us decades ago, eventually they had to give in. Tesla now.

pard68 3y ago
Why? They pay taxes. They pay shipping. Why do you also have to pay extortion fees?
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  > extortion fees They have options of course: 1) Stop doing business in Sweden. 2) Sign a collective labor agreement that ensure worker's rights just as every other company that operates in Sweden.
  - pard68 3y ago
    Just because every other company in Sweden accepts extortion as part and parcel of doing business does not make extortion okay.
    - surgical_fire 3y ago
      > extortion Complying with labor protections is not extortion. And if Tesla does not wish to comply with the norms in Sweden they definitely should stop operating in the country.
- aforwardslash 3y ago
  Just because you pay something, it does not give you free reign to go against the local customs and traditions. Go to a cinema, buy a ticket and be loud and obnoxious; see how fast they throw you out, regardless of having paid. Its not illegal to be obnoxious, but it is frowned upon.
  - pard68 3y ago
    This is a false dichotomy. This is buying a ticket to the movie and then a mobster taking another fee at the door.
- VoxPelli 3y ago
  Because in Sweden it’s not the government that micromanages the job market, it’s the industry and the unions that does so together, so paying taxes is irrelevant.
- xorcist 3y ago
  Nobody is demanding any fees. Of course you sign a contract when doing business. It's like that in any market economy. What's peculiar about Sweden is how that extends to the labor market. So instead of commercial civil law you have contract law. That's the only difference. Tesla can either negotiate a contract and do business, or exit the market. They are free to do either. What seemingly confuses people is that Tesla is not breaking any civil law. Only contract law, which the market has organized around, and which it is free to refuse their business about.
bilvar 3y ago
Yeah it's very easy, just give in to the demands of the people blackmailing you. How didn't anybody thought of that before?
- VoxPelli 3y ago
  “The people” being your employees and the society at large who wants to negotiate with you. Who is blackmailing whom?
cornholio 3y ago
What you seem to miss is that this is not a labor dispute, it's a political dispute, Tesla has absolutely no conflict with its own employees. The employees of other companies - some, essential service providers for Swedish state - selectively target Tesla for what they perceive as a political threat to their interests. Where will these political demands stop? Will the unions drive into a bankruptcy any company that expands in another low cost, not unionized country? Any company that employs migrants? Who would bet a billion dollar investment on the answer to such questions?
- VoxPelli 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 3y ago
    Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It isn't in your interest anyhow, since it only discredits your own view. The thing to do, when someone else is wrong, is to respond to incorrect information with true information, and to bad arguments with good arguments. If you don't want to do that or don't have time, that's ok, but please don't substitute for it with putdowns, name-calling, and so on; that just degrades discussion. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - VoxPelli 3y ago
      It feels odd to have to provide sources to disprove someone who didn’t provide sources for their claims. That makes it asymmetrically harder to respond to lies than it is to spread them. One should be able to point out that a source-less comment is questionable without having to reference sources oneself.
      - cornholio 3y ago
        I have no idea what you are talking about. It's well documented the striking employees are not Tesla employees. It's also clear they target Tesla - that's the whole deal with a solidarity strike. Those are the only two factual pieces of information in my comment, they can be easily verified and should be known to most poeple following the topic to the point of requiring no sources. Everything else in the comment, such as the assessment that the action is politically motivated, is clealry a statements of opinion, not fact. And because my opinions run contrary to your own political convictions, you felt the need for a personal attack. It's quite audacious to present such an exchange as an issue with sources.

pard68 3y ago

Why? They pay taxes. They pay shipping. Why do you also have to pay extortion fees?

surgical_fire 3y ago
> extortion fees They have options of course: 1) Stop doing business in Sweden. 2) Sign a collective labor agreement that ensure worker's rights just as every other company that operates in Sweden.
- pard68 3y ago
  Just because every other company in Sweden accepts extortion as part and parcel of doing business does not make extortion okay.
  - surgical_fire 3y ago
    > extortion Complying with labor protections is not extortion. And if Tesla does not wish to comply with the norms in Sweden they definitely should stop operating in the country.
aforwardslash 3y ago
Just because you pay something, it does not give you free reign to go against the local customs and traditions. Go to a cinema, buy a ticket and be loud and obnoxious; see how fast they throw you out, regardless of having paid. Its not illegal to be obnoxious, but it is frowned upon.
- pard68 3y ago
  This is a false dichotomy. This is buying a ticket to the movie and then a mobster taking another fee at the door.
VoxPelli 3y ago
Because in Sweden it’s not the government that micromanages the job market, it’s the industry and the unions that does so together, so paying taxes is irrelevant.
xorcist 3y ago
Nobody is demanding any fees. Of course you sign a contract when doing business. It's like that in any market economy. What's peculiar about Sweden is how that extends to the labor market. So instead of commercial civil law you have contract law. That's the only difference. Tesla can either negotiate a contract and do business, or exit the market. They are free to do either. What seemingly confuses people is that Tesla is not breaking any civil law. Only contract law, which the market has organized around, and which it is free to refuse their business about.

bilvar 3y ago

Yeah it's very easy, just give in to the demands of the people blackmailing you. How didn't anybody thought of that before?

VoxPelli 3y ago
“The people” being your employees and the society at large who wants to negotiate with you. Who is blackmailing whom?

cornholio 3y ago

What you seem to miss is that this is not a labor dispute, it's a political dispute, Tesla has absolutely no conflict with its own employees. The employees of other companies - some, essential service providers for Swedish state - selectively target Tesla for what they perceive as a political threat to their interests. Where will these political demands stop? Will the unions drive into a bankruptcy any company that expands in another low cost, not unionized country? Any company that employs migrants? Who would bet a billion dollar investment on the answer to such questions?

VoxPelli 3y ago
[flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It isn't in your interest anyhow, since it only discredits your own view. The thing to do, when someone else is wrong, is to respond to incorrect information with true information, and to bad arguments with good arguments. If you don't want to do that or don't have time, that's ok, but please don't substitute for it with putdowns, name-calling, and so on; that just degrades discussion. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - VoxPelli 3y ago
    It feels odd to have to provide sources to disprove someone who didn’t provide sources for their claims. That makes it asymmetrically harder to respond to lies than it is to spread them. One should be able to point out that a source-less comment is questionable without having to reference sources oneself.
    - cornholio 3y ago
      I have no idea what you are talking about. It's well documented the striking employees are not Tesla employees. It's also clear they target Tesla - that's the whole deal with a solidarity strike. Those are the only two factual pieces of information in my comment, they can be easily verified and should be known to most poeple following the topic to the point of requiring no sources. Everything else in the comment, such as the assessment that the action is politically motivated, is clealry a statements of opinion, not fact. And because my opinions run contrary to your own political convictions, you felt the need for a personal attack. It's quite audacious to present such an exchange as an issue with sources.