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WhatsApp wording is usually very specific about e2e when you send a message from you to your contact. Nothing about eg all this also being dumped on FB servers

WhatsApp wording is usually very specific about e2e when you send a message from you to your contact. Nothing about eg all this also being dumped on FB servers in plaintext. This wouldn't be an outright lie - it may well be e2ee but just also shared around.

acdha 3y ago
That would be a lie from the perspective of a court since it very clearly does not fit their description of the service. In cases like that, courts tend to give leeway to the argument that they promised what a reasonable person would conclude from the product advertisement. What would be more interesting would be if they had a way to signal their app to do a search locally and report a match. That would still be E2E but might be enough that they would be able to defend a lawsuit.
- rich_sasha 3y ago
  > That would be a lie from the perspective of a court since it very clearly does not fit their description of the service. I don't know. They promise a particular aspect of privacy and presumably deliver on it. They don't promise absolute privacy - that's my whole point. I think given the exact wording of what they promise, I can't reasonably expect that my conversations are private only between me and the recipient.
  - acdha 3y ago
    This is what they said and it very clearly excludes the scenario in question: > The extra layer of security provided by end-to-end encryption means that the content of your messages and calls with friends and family are protected from the moment they leave your device to the moment they reach the receiver’s device. This means that nobody, including Meta, can see what’s sent or said, unless you choose to report a message to us.
    - rich_sasha 3y ago
      With what little FANG legalese I know, this IMHO covers Al ranges of nasty behaviour. But of course we won't know either way until it's tried in court.
    - itsyaboi 3y ago
      > are protected from the moment they leave your device Eh plenty of wiggle room here
      - acdha 3y ago
        Not if you don't chop the quote like a creationist. The next sentence rules out any sort of creative games like “we send it to the receiver which decrypts it and bounces a copy back”: > This means that nobody, including Meta, can see what’s sent or said, unless you choose to report a message to us. If they were playing games and got sued, I'd be quite surprised if they didn't get laughed out of court for claiming that “nobody” actually meant “the FBI”.

acdha 3y ago

That would be a lie from the perspective of a court since it very clearly does not fit their description of the service. In cases like that, courts tend to give leeway to the argument that they promised what a reasonable person would conclude from the product advertisement. What would be more interesting would be if they had a way to signal their app to do a search locally and report a match. That would still be E2E but might be enough that they would be able to defend a lawsuit.

rich_sasha 3y ago
> That would be a lie from the perspective of a court since it very clearly does not fit their description of the service. I don't know. They promise a particular aspect of privacy and presumably deliver on it. They don't promise absolute privacy - that's my whole point. I think given the exact wording of what they promise, I can't reasonably expect that my conversations are private only between me and the recipient.
- acdha 3y ago
  This is what they said and it very clearly excludes the scenario in question: > The extra layer of security provided by end-to-end encryption means that the content of your messages and calls with friends and family are protected from the moment they leave your device to the moment they reach the receiver’s device. This means that nobody, including Meta, can see what’s sent or said, unless you choose to report a message to us.
  - rich_sasha 3y ago
    With what little FANG legalese I know, this IMHO covers Al ranges of nasty behaviour. But of course we won't know either way until it's tried in court.
  - itsyaboi 3y ago
    > are protected from the moment they leave your device Eh plenty of wiggle room here
    - acdha 3y ago
      Not if you don't chop the quote like a creationist. The next sentence rules out any sort of creative games like “we send it to the receiver which decrypts it and bounces a copy back”: > This means that nobody, including Meta, can see what’s sent or said, unless you choose to report a message to us. If they were playing games and got sued, I'd be quite surprised if they didn't get laughed out of court for claiming that “nobody” actually meant “the FBI”.