3 ms·

The manufacturer lost the bidding process, so quite reasonably (if you look at it in a limited fashion) said "Fine, let SLS do the work, you're on your own". A

The manufacturer lost the bidding process, so quite reasonably (if you look at it in a limited fashion) said "Fine, let SLS do the work, you're on your own". Arsehole-ish, but not illegal. All the hidden lockouts on the other hand....

dalore 3y ago
They knew that SLS would not be able to do it.
93po 3y ago
I don't think it's assholeish for someone who's not getting compensated in any way to not help out. It's a business. They have an active incentive to NOT help.
- yetihehe 3y ago
  It's not about "not wanting to help". It's about placing logic bombs of "if vehicle is at this gps coordinates of a competitor, engage self-destruct". Hackers actually did extract such coordinates from train firmware.
  - 93po 3y ago
    unless we have the entirety of the context for this code and the 20,000 pages of service manuals, i do not accept at face value that it's this simple
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Any kind of GPS coordinates, especially those of competitor facilities in the firmware of a train is proof positive that something really bad is going on. Context and manuals are just so much smoke and fail to obscure the facts.
    - korhojoa 3y ago
      Considering that the situation this was named after had _very_ specific timing, state and sensor values coded in a defeat device, I'd say that having the mapped the gps coordinates of your competitors im the firmware of your product is pretty damning. Nevermind the poorly executed "if day => 21, month => 11, year => 2021", which was conveniently setting a failure which wasn't actually present. It'a probably not that simple, but it's not that complicated either. If you make something engineered to fail without there being a failure present, that's clear malice. Imagine buying a car, you own it until the warranty runs out and the the manufacturer's workshop moves (say there was a fire/flood/sinkhole/industrial disaster, and they had to) and the car would refuse to move since it's not being serviced at the official location anymore.
      - 93po 3y ago
        There’s literally a hundred reasons why code like that could exist. My point is there is probably another hundred thousand lines of code and we have no idea how the few lines we see are being used.
tensility 3y ago
The hidden lockouts containing GPS coordinates of competitors' repair facilities should be more than enough to establish criminal intent (in my armchair non-lawyer opinion).

dalore 3y ago

They knew that SLS would not be able to do it.

93po 3y ago

I don't think it's assholeish for someone who's not getting compensated in any way to not help out. It's a business. They have an active incentive to NOT help.

yetihehe 3y ago
It's not about "not wanting to help". It's about placing logic bombs of "if vehicle is at this gps coordinates of a competitor, engage self-destruct". Hackers actually did extract such coordinates from train firmware.
- 93po 3y ago
  unless we have the entirety of the context for this code and the 20,000 pages of service manuals, i do not accept at face value that it's this simple
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Any kind of GPS coordinates, especially those of competitor facilities in the firmware of a train is proof positive that something really bad is going on. Context and manuals are just so much smoke and fail to obscure the facts.
  - korhojoa 3y ago
    Considering that the situation this was named after had _very_ specific timing, state and sensor values coded in a defeat device, I'd say that having the mapped the gps coordinates of your competitors im the firmware of your product is pretty damning. Nevermind the poorly executed "if day => 21, month => 11, year => 2021", which was conveniently setting a failure which wasn't actually present. It'a probably not that simple, but it's not that complicated either. If you make something engineered to fail without there being a failure present, that's clear malice. Imagine buying a car, you own it until the warranty runs out and the the manufacturer's workshop moves (say there was a fire/flood/sinkhole/industrial disaster, and they had to) and the car would refuse to move since it's not being serviced at the official location anymore.
    - 93po 3y ago
      There’s literally a hundred reasons why code like that could exist. My point is there is probably another hundred thousand lines of code and we have no idea how the few lines we see are being used.

tensility 3y ago

The hidden lockouts containing GPS coordinates of competitors' repair facilities should be more than enough to establish criminal intent (in my armchair non-lawyer opinion).