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Mercedes-Benz has been using 48V systems since 2016. https://paultan.org/2016/10/31/mercedes-benz-reveals-first-details-of-new-engine-family-48v-mild-hybrid-an

by avalys 3y ago

Mercedes-Benz has been using 48V systems since 2016. https://paultan.org/2016/10/31/mercedes-benz-reveals-first-details-of-new-engine-family-48v-mild-hybrid-and-electric-turbo/ https://paultan.org/2016/10/31/mercedes-benz-reveals-first-d... This dynamic, where Tesla "announces" something that the rest of the industry has been doing for a while anyway, and a bunch of star-struck enthusiasts and stock manipulators tout it as an example of Tesla' "super smart innovation", is getting tiresome.

panick21_ 3y ago
That's a complete misunderstanding of what Tesla did. Having a component in the car that is 48V and having the whole car being on a 48V PoE architecture are totally different things. The sad part is that these company actually have the beginning of a 48V system but never actually pushed threw and did it all. This is like when SpaceX landed a first stage and everybody was like 'DC-X did it SpaceX did nothing new'. There is a reason lots of people, including experts are exited of what Tesla did here.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  Of course Tesla has taken it further which is interesting and could be useful - but it's not quite true that the whole car is on 48V, they've already said that ~20% of the common / supplier-provided components are still 12V. For pure EVs, sticking with higher voltage makes a lot of sense and Tesla was perfectly suited to lead the charge here since they have built so much of their supply chain from scratch and can spec everything to be 48V where other EV manufacturers mostly just reused components from their ICE cars. Previous 48V systems were only partial for good reason as well - traditional manufacturers have been using "mild hybrid" 48V systems since ~2001. Many of the electrical components on ICE vehicles are parasitic engine loads since they need power than can be provided with 12V, so e.g. the water pump and AC compressor have separate belts that always are 'robbing' the engine power regardless if they're needed or not. Adding that 48V system allows for the engine to be freed from the draw that those components require and adding some light regenerative braking is sufficient to keep the batteries supplying that system charged. That these 48v systems aren't universal should provide some color on how successful / important the manufacturers had found them to be.
t0mas88 3y ago
Jup happens all the time. Tesla also made the CyberTruck a drive by wire system, now fans are claiming it has the unique ability to have variable steering angles based on speed which is "far ahead of any other manufacturer" Except that BMW 5-series and 7-series from 2010 onward have had this option... They've done it in a smarter way using a plantery gear system to keep a physical steering wheel connection as a backup instead of going the cheap and less safe drive by wire way that Tesla put on the CyberTruck.
ironyholder 3y ago
That is a link to a press release. As best as I can tell from other sources, they started shipping some high end, low volume models the next year that added a separate 48V curcuit in addition to the 12V. Color me impressed...
xenadu02 3y ago
There is still a large benefit to this. Because Tesla is seen as a leader in the EV space it prods others to follow them. In some cases like this it gives people in the supply chain or internally at other automakers justification to make changes they've been prevented from making in the past. All sorts of people have all sorts of random ideas that never go anywhere until an industry "golden child" says it's the way forward. Without that effect the change can take much longer to happen.
ddalex 3y ago
U mean Apple?

by avalys 3y ago

panick21_ 3y ago

That's a complete misunderstanding of what Tesla did. Having a component in the car that is 48V and having the whole car being on a 48V PoE architecture are totally different things. The sad part is that these company actually have the beginning of a 48V system but never actually pushed threw and did it all. This is like when SpaceX landed a first stage and everybody was like 'DC-X did it SpaceX did nothing new'. There is a reason lots of people, including experts are exited of what Tesla did here.

mikeyouse 3y ago
Of course Tesla has taken it further which is interesting and could be useful - but it's not quite true that the whole car is on 48V, they've already said that ~20% of the common / supplier-provided components are still 12V. For pure EVs, sticking with higher voltage makes a lot of sense and Tesla was perfectly suited to lead the charge here since they have built so much of their supply chain from scratch and can spec everything to be 48V where other EV manufacturers mostly just reused components from their ICE cars. Previous 48V systems were only partial for good reason as well - traditional manufacturers have been using "mild hybrid" 48V systems since ~2001. Many of the electrical components on ICE vehicles are parasitic engine loads since they need power than can be provided with 12V, so e.g. the water pump and AC compressor have separate belts that always are 'robbing' the engine power regardless if they're needed or not. Adding that 48V system allows for the engine to be freed from the draw that those components require and adding some light regenerative braking is sufficient to keep the batteries supplying that system charged. That these 48v systems aren't universal should provide some color on how successful / important the manufacturers had found them to be.

t0mas88 3y ago

Jup happens all the time. Tesla also made the CyberTruck a drive by wire system, now fans are claiming it has the unique ability to have variable steering angles based on speed which is "far ahead of any other manufacturer" Except that BMW 5-series and 7-series from 2010 onward have had this option... They've done it in a smarter way using a plantery gear system to keep a physical steering wheel connection as a backup instead of going the cheap and less safe drive by wire way that Tesla put on the CyberTruck.

ironyholder 3y ago

That is a link to a press release. As best as I can tell from other sources, they started shipping some high end, low volume models the next year that added a separate 48V curcuit in addition to the 12V. Color me impressed...

xenadu02 3y ago

There is still a large benefit to this. Because Tesla is seen as a leader in the EV space it prods others to follow them. In some cases like this it gives people in the supply chain or internally at other automakers justification to make changes they've been prevented from making in the past. All sorts of people have all sorts of random ideas that never go anywhere until an industry "golden child" says it's the way forward. Without that effect the change can take much longer to happen.

ddalex 3y ago

U mean Apple?