17 ms·

I trust the sceince just fine, i dont trust corporate interests and how heavily and deeply coporate rot has penetrated into our institutions. I activly expect

I trust the sceince just fine, i dont trust corporate interests and how heavily and deeply coporate rot has penetrated into our institutions. I activly expect dishonesty on the part of corporate interest, and corporate interest is increasingly if not already entierly, government interest.

jussij 3y ago
Do you have any examples of how the FDA is starting to put corporate interest ahead of public interest?
- elcritch 3y ago
  I’d say corporate and good-old-boy senior researcher clubs: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna63662 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna63662
  - jussij 3y ago
    It's very difficult for any major institution to not have problems similar to this, as there will always be individuals in positions of power who take it upon themselves to make decisions that can be construed as corrupt. However, the fact this issue was revealed to the public, reported widely and also found to be a highly dubious shows the institute is working fine. They appear to have systems and processes in place to help stop these kinds of dubious decisions, and because of the blowback from this rather poor decision, I'm certain the people at the FDA working the next round of approvals will make sure they hold up to scrutiny, which will be stronger than ever.
    - elcritch 3y ago
      Of course major institutions will always face these sorta problems. However your comment seems to assume the FDA self-corrected. They faced a lot of external criticism and eventually partially capitulated. Even then they just restricted its listed audience. > They appear to have systems and processes in place to help stop these kinds of dubious decisions Except that it was external pressure that forced changes, not internal processes. The congressional report found that the FDA violated their own processes. Thankfully we still have a fairly transparent government and the incident was made public. Though congress seems to have just given them a slap in the wrist. No officials were fired AFAICT, why wouldn't other FDA officials do the same in the future? Based on the parent article it might still be happening.
- financltravsty 3y ago
  FDA Warning Letters: your pharmaceutical manufacturing plant was found to have adulteration and QA issues (again). Your medication actually has other medications or precursor/intermediate chemicals in it (again). FDA's response: a wag of the finger (again). So you "fix" the issue the next time the FDA Boy Scout comes around. All set. Rinse and repeat.
elcritch 3y ago
Same here. I also think it’s “we the people’s” fault to a large degree as well. These institutions require citizens to elect leaders who will put them in check. We don’t do that. The system largely works so people don’t really care that much, myself included.
- autoexec 3y ago
  Considering all the literal poison and bacteria infested shit in our food I'm not even convinced it mostly works. The FDA simply isn't doing their job.
readthenotes1 3y ago
And yet, modern science involves humans, human interests, and human failings. Science practice is as flawed as the people that do it.
- Grimblewald 3y ago
  Yes, but the pay is shit, the social recognition is non existent, etc. So its not going to attract as many of the dark triad types like law or upper managment would.
  - readthenotes1 3y ago
    I'd ask for proof of that assertion but...
  - elcritch 3y ago
    Hmmm that’s an important factor. It’s one reason I still “trust in scientific process”. While it’s corruptible, imperfect, etc enough scientists still believe in the ideals of science. Otherwise why do it at all? Still at a top institution like the FDA will attract the grafters and dark triad types in the field. Some of the most conceited self-centered types I’ve ever met are top researchers / academics and I’ve met a handful of VC CEOs. Look at the disdain for the “average joe” that leaks out of the emails between Dr Fauci and Dr Collins when they wanted to squash scientific debate on Covid (1). 1: https://www.wsj.com/articles/fauci-collins-emails-great-barrington-declaration-covid-pandemic-lockdown-11640129116 https://www.wsj.com/articles/fauci-collins-emails-great-barr...

jussij 3y ago

Do you have any examples of how the FDA is starting to put corporate interest ahead of public interest?

elcritch 3y ago
I’d say corporate and good-old-boy senior researcher clubs: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna63662 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna63662
- jussij 3y ago
  It's very difficult for any major institution to not have problems similar to this, as there will always be individuals in positions of power who take it upon themselves to make decisions that can be construed as corrupt. However, the fact this issue was revealed to the public, reported widely and also found to be a highly dubious shows the institute is working fine. They appear to have systems and processes in place to help stop these kinds of dubious decisions, and because of the blowback from this rather poor decision, I'm certain the people at the FDA working the next round of approvals will make sure they hold up to scrutiny, which will be stronger than ever.
  - elcritch 3y ago
    Of course major institutions will always face these sorta problems. However your comment seems to assume the FDA self-corrected. They faced a lot of external criticism and eventually partially capitulated. Even then they just restricted its listed audience. > They appear to have systems and processes in place to help stop these kinds of dubious decisions Except that it was external pressure that forced changes, not internal processes. The congressional report found that the FDA violated their own processes. Thankfully we still have a fairly transparent government and the incident was made public. Though congress seems to have just given them a slap in the wrist. No officials were fired AFAICT, why wouldn't other FDA officials do the same in the future? Based on the parent article it might still be happening.
financltravsty 3y ago
FDA Warning Letters: your pharmaceutical manufacturing plant was found to have adulteration and QA issues (again). Your medication actually has other medications or precursor/intermediate chemicals in it (again). FDA's response: a wag of the finger (again). So you "fix" the issue the next time the FDA Boy Scout comes around. All set. Rinse and repeat.

elcritch 3y ago

Same here. I also think it’s “we the people’s” fault to a large degree as well. These institutions require citizens to elect leaders who will put them in check. We don’t do that. The system largely works so people don’t really care that much, myself included.

autoexec 3y ago
Considering all the literal poison and bacteria infested shit in our food I'm not even convinced it mostly works. The FDA simply isn't doing their job.

readthenotes1 3y ago

And yet, modern science involves humans, human interests, and human failings. Science practice is as flawed as the people that do it.

Grimblewald 3y ago
Yes, but the pay is shit, the social recognition is non existent, etc. So its not going to attract as many of the dark triad types like law or upper managment would.
- readthenotes1 3y ago
  I'd ask for proof of that assertion but...
- elcritch 3y ago
  Hmmm that’s an important factor. It’s one reason I still “trust in scientific process”. While it’s corruptible, imperfect, etc enough scientists still believe in the ideals of science. Otherwise why do it at all? Still at a top institution like the FDA will attract the grafters and dark triad types in the field. Some of the most conceited self-centered types I’ve ever met are top researchers / academics and I’ve met a handful of VC CEOs. Look at the disdain for the “average joe” that leaks out of the emails between Dr Fauci and Dr Collins when they wanted to squash scientific debate on Covid (1). 1: https://www.wsj.com/articles/fauci-collins-emails-great-barrington-declaration-covid-pandemic-lockdown-11640129116 https://www.wsj.com/articles/fauci-collins-emails-great-barr...