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Just because it’s getting mentioned around here a lot lately: Tolstoy was a convert to Georgism (the philosophy backing Land Value Tax). It’s interesting to see

Just because it’s getting mentioned around here a lot lately: Tolstoy was a convert to Georgism (the philosophy backing Land Value Tax). It’s interesting to see a very specific idea suddenly win a person, and see it reflected back in their output. Interesting piece by Tolstoy’s son on how big an influence George was: https://cooperative-individualism.org/tolstoy-ilya_leo-tolstoy-and-henry-george-1928.htm https://cooperative-individualism.org/tolstoy-ilya_leo-tolst...

to1y 3y ago
I don't think that's what the short story is about.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  > The question of buying freehold land recurred to him again and again. > He went on in the same way for three years; renting land and sowing wheat. The seasons turned out well and the crops were good, so that he began to lay money by. He might have gone on living contentedly, but he grew tired of having to rent other people's land every year, and having to scramble for it. Wherever there was good land to be had, the peasants would rush for it and it was taken up at once, so that unless you were sharp about it you got none. It happened in the third year that he and a dealer together rented a piece of pasture land from some peasants; and they had already ploughed it up, when there was some dispute, and the peasants went to law about it, and things fell out so that the labor was all lost. "If it were my own land," thought Pahom, "I should be independent, and there would not be all this unpleasantness." Yep can't see any sort of economic ideology regarding land ownership at play here. I didn't say the story is about Georgism, I said its influence is reflected in the short story. It's "about" greed, but it's no coincidence that the greed is specifically greed for land and that it goes into such depth about specific ownership structures of land.
beaeglebeach 3y ago
I've always found it interesting HN is so focused on Georgism given it's leanings. It works out fine for hyper capitalists who eek out highly efficient use of land for stuff like a steel mill but is arguably devastating to the average joe who uses it for economically unprofitable uses like a place to let his toddler or dog play. Property tax is definitely more preferable to the prol and even programmer wage slave, who can eek out low taxes on a larger leisure plot by not improving it and won't be forced to drill for oil or something to pay the George tax like it held a higher averaged common value. In many senses property tax is progressivism while Georgism land tax is a hyper capitalist steamroller that cares not you've barely been able to improve the land with a decrepit mobile home and meanwhile taxes the baron with the gold plated loan shark palace the same.
- waihtis 3y ago
  A classic case of theory vs reality. Some things that look good on paper in a limited scope are devastating when used in more complex contexts. See also: communism and all it's other variants.
  - soundarana 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - onionisafruit 3y ago
      I tried free markets last weekend. It works great. Roger Clinton was right, “free the market and the booty will follow”.
    - benterix 3y ago
      I'm not sure if you are being serious or not, but just in case: many versions of communism and socialism have been tried. When introduced at a country level, not only didn't they eradicate mass poverty or class inequalities (they just got other names), but for some reason they came with totalitarianism, violence, restricting freedom of speech, prosecuting enemies and other side-effects. The cases where it (kind of) worked were local communes like Longo Mai (but even in these cases people argue because they receive donations, use external medical care etc.). The key difference in my opinion is that for any ideology to succeed, all members need to believe in it and actively engage towards its success. It's pretty much feasible at a local level but extremely difficult at a state level.
  - at_compile_time 3y ago
    Communism only looks good on paper if you know nothing about human behavior. Georgism aims to take the best aspects of capitalism (market-driven optimization) while restraining some of its worst qualities (speculative bubbles driving higher prices and rents which in turn strangle the economy).
    - waihtis 3y ago

to1y 3y ago

I don't think that's what the short story is about.

ethanbond 3y ago
> The question of buying freehold land recurred to him again and again. > He went on in the same way for three years; renting land and sowing wheat. The seasons turned out well and the crops were good, so that he began to lay money by. He might have gone on living contentedly, but he grew tired of having to rent other people's land every year, and having to scramble for it. Wherever there was good land to be had, the peasants would rush for it and it was taken up at once, so that unless you were sharp about it you got none. It happened in the third year that he and a dealer together rented a piece of pasture land from some peasants; and they had already ploughed it up, when there was some dispute, and the peasants went to law about it, and things fell out so that the labor was all lost. "If it were my own land," thought Pahom, "I should be independent, and there would not be all this unpleasantness." Yep can't see any sort of economic ideology regarding land ownership at play here. I didn't say the story is about Georgism, I said its influence is reflected in the short story. It's "about" greed, but it's no coincidence that the greed is specifically greed for land and that it goes into such depth about specific ownership structures of land.

beaeglebeach 3y ago

I've always found it interesting HN is so focused on Georgism given it's leanings. It works out fine for hyper capitalists who eek out highly efficient use of land for stuff like a steel mill but is arguably devastating to the average joe who uses it for economically unprofitable uses like a place to let his toddler or dog play. Property tax is definitely more preferable to the prol and even programmer wage slave, who can eek out low taxes on a larger leisure plot by not improving it and won't be forced to drill for oil or something to pay the George tax like it held a higher averaged common value. In many senses property tax is progressivism while Georgism land tax is a hyper capitalist steamroller that cares not you've barely been able to improve the land with a decrepit mobile home and meanwhile taxes the baron with the gold plated loan shark palace the same.

waihtis 3y ago
A classic case of theory vs reality. Some things that look good on paper in a limited scope are devastating when used in more complex contexts. See also: communism and all it's other variants.
- soundarana 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - onionisafruit 3y ago
    I tried free markets last weekend. It works great. Roger Clinton was right, “free the market and the booty will follow”.
  - benterix 3y ago
    I'm not sure if you are being serious or not, but just in case: many versions of communism and socialism have been tried. When introduced at a country level, not only didn't they eradicate mass poverty or class inequalities (they just got other names), but for some reason they came with totalitarianism, violence, restricting freedom of speech, prosecuting enemies and other side-effects. The cases where it (kind of) worked were local communes like Longo Mai (but even in these cases people argue because they receive donations, use external medical care etc.). The key difference in my opinion is that for any ideology to succeed, all members need to believe in it and actively engage towards its success. It's pretty much feasible at a local level but extremely difficult at a state level.
- at_compile_time 3y ago
  Communism only looks good on paper if you know nothing about human behavior. Georgism aims to take the best aspects of capitalism (market-driven optimization) while restraining some of its worst qualities (speculative bubbles driving higher prices and rents which in turn strangle the economy).
  - waihtis 3y ago