3 ms·

Are you claiming China and Japan are individualistic, or that people are hiding all the babies somewhere? https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/to

by sfink 3y ago

Are you claiming China and Japan are individualistic, or that people are hiding all the babies somewhere? https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/total-fertility-rate https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/total-fer... does not show eastern countries as having particularly high birth rates, and the largest eastern countries have the lowest. The description on that page under Africa, which is the only continent remaining with fertility rate well above replacement rate, does agree with your assessment that it's about the society and its expectations. (As a side note, I heard that Nigeria is on track to soon becoming the country with the 2nd highest number of English speakers after the US, which stunned me given that India is the most populous country in the world and—I thought—has a fairly high percentage of English speakers.)

rayiner 3y ago
> Are you claiming China and Japan are individualistic, or that people are hiding all the babies somewhere No? A -> B doesn’t mean that B -> A. In the case of East Asia, it’s nearly a century of deliberate anti-natal government policy. China’s one-child policy is the most brutal, but pretty much all East Asian countries had softer forms of encouraging people not to have kids.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  It's not like this at all. People aren't having kids in all developed nations, east or west, and also in developing nations as they become more developed, the birthrate falls dramatically. It's not "anti-natal government policy", it's various other factors: cost of living, expectations of how much resources/attention will be devoted to each kid, women's rights, etc. China's one-child policy is long since over, but their birthrate is very low too. Government policy isn't the problem (if it's even a "problem"). People just don't want to have big families, and now that they have a choice, they don't.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    The one child policy was only ended in 2016. Several generations grew up under it, changing the culture significantly. That’s been true in all Asian countries. > People just don't want to have big families, and now that they have a choice, they don't. But “choice” is individualism! There are American subcultures that are more educated and affluent than average, like Muslims and Mormons, that have much higher fertility rates than average. And that’s because those cultures exert strong social pressures to conform to expectations about family life instead of leaving it to choice.
- huytersd 3y ago
  It’s not just East Asia. India is under replacement rate at this point and it’s been a constant drastic decline. It’s just a function of kids being expensive to raise with the standards a developed economy mindset imposes. Children become less of a throwaway/what will be will be proposition.

by sfink 3y ago

rayiner 3y ago

> Are you claiming China and Japan are individualistic, or that people are hiding all the babies somewhere No? A -> B doesn’t mean that B -> A. In the case of East Asia, it’s nearly a century of deliberate anti-natal government policy. China’s one-child policy is the most brutal, but pretty much all East Asian countries had softer forms of encouraging people not to have kids.

shiroiuma 3y ago
It's not like this at all. People aren't having kids in all developed nations, east or west, and also in developing nations as they become more developed, the birthrate falls dramatically. It's not "anti-natal government policy", it's various other factors: cost of living, expectations of how much resources/attention will be devoted to each kid, women's rights, etc. China's one-child policy is long since over, but their birthrate is very low too. Government policy isn't the problem (if it's even a "problem"). People just don't want to have big families, and now that they have a choice, they don't.
- rayiner 3y ago
  The one child policy was only ended in 2016. Several generations grew up under it, changing the culture significantly. That’s been true in all Asian countries. > People just don't want to have big families, and now that they have a choice, they don't. But “choice” is individualism! There are American subcultures that are more educated and affluent than average, like Muslims and Mormons, that have much higher fertility rates than average. And that’s because those cultures exert strong social pressures to conform to expectations about family life instead of leaving it to choice.
huytersd 3y ago
It’s not just East Asia. India is under replacement rate at this point and it’s been a constant drastic decline. It’s just a function of kids being expensive to raise with the standards a developed economy mindset imposes. Children become less of a throwaway/what will be will be proposition.