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A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay
- phero_cnstrcts 3y ago> The FDA demanded a study of 100 subjects, all of whom had to be “age 18-30, with removable dentures, living alone and far from school zones”. Hillman wasn’t sure there even were 100 young people with dentures, but the FDA wouldn’t budge from requiring this impossible trial. Hillman gave up and switched to other projects Interesting that the FDA can request such things. Would be a good way to block disruptive products that larger companies wouldn’t like.
- elcritch 3y agoSomehow I keep loosing confidence in the FDA. That basically sounds like a special interest group giving unreasonable requirements to prevent it succeeding. What’s the chance that some of the FDA personnel were linked to companies in dental or dental care products? Perhaps some national association of dentists?
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago[flagged]
- Grimblewald 3y agoI trust the sceince just fine, i dont trust corporate interests and how heavily and deeply coporate rot has penetrated into our institutions. I activly expect dishonesty on the part of corporate interest, and corporate interest is increasingly if not already entierly, government interest.
- jussij 3y agoDo you have any examples of how the FDA is starting to put corporate interest ahead of public interest?
- elcritch 3y agoI’d say corporate and good-old-boy senior researcher clubs: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna63662 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna63662
- jussij 3y agoIt's very difficult for any major institution to not have problems similar to this, as there will always be individuals in positions of power who take it upon themselves to make decisions that can be construed as corrupt. However, the fact this issue was revealed to the public, reported widely and also found to be a highly dubious shows the institute is working fine. They appear to have systems and processes in place to help stop these kinds of dubious decisions, and because of the blowback from this rather poor decision, I'm certain the people at the FDA working the next round of approvals will make sure they hold up to scrutiny, which will be stronger than ever.
- elcritch 3y agoOf course major institutions will always face these sorta problems. However your comment seems to assume the FDA self-corrected. They faced a lot of external criticism and eventually partially capitulated. Even then they just restricted its listed audience. > They appear to have systems and processes in place to help stop these kinds of dubious decisions Except that it was external pressure that forced changes, not internal processes. The congressional report found that the FDA violated their own processes. Thankfully we still have a fairly transparent government and the incident was made public. Though congress seems to have just given them a slap in the wrist. No officials were fired AFAICT, why wouldn't other FDA officials do the same in the future? Based on the parent article it might still be happening.
- financltravsty 3y agoFDA Warning Letters: your pharmaceutical manufacturing plant was found to have adulteration and QA issues (again). Your medication actually has other medications or precursor/intermediate chemicals in it (again). FDA's response: a wag of the finger (again). So you "fix" the issue the next time the FDA Boy Scout comes around. All set. Rinse and repeat.
- elcritch 3y agoSame here. I also think it’s “we the people’s” fault to a large degree as well. These institutions require citizens to elect leaders who will put them in check. We don’t do that. The system largely works so people don’t really care that much, myself included.
- autoexec 3y agoConsidering all the literal poison and bacteria infested shit in our food I'm not even convinced it mostly works. The FDA simply isn't doing their job.
- readthenotes1 3y agoAnd yet, modern science involves humans, human interests, and human failings. Science practice is as flawed as the people that do it.
- Grimblewald 3y agoYes, but the pay is shit, the social recognition is non existent, etc. So its not going to attract as many of the dark triad types like law or upper managment would.
- readthenotes1 3y agoI'd ask for proof of that assertion but...
- elcritch 3y agoHmmm that’s an important factor. It’s one reason I still “trust in scientific process”. While it’s corruptible, imperfect, etc enough scientists still believe in the ideals of science. Otherwise why do it at all? Still at a top institution like the FDA will attract the grafters and dark triad types in the field. Some of the most conceited self-centered types I’ve ever met are top researchers / academics and I’ve met a handful of VC CEOs. Look at the disdain for the “average joe” that leaks out of the emails between Dr Fauci and Dr Collins when they wanted to squash scientific debate on Covid (1). 1: https://www.wsj.com/articles/fauci-collins-emails-great-barrington-declaration-covid-pandemic-lockdown-11640129116 https://www.wsj.com/articles/fauci-collins-emails-great-barr...
- taylorius 3y agoYes, but Not the People.
- Symmetry 3y agoIt's actually a lot better than it used to be. You wouldn't see a situation where beta blockers were available in Europe a decade ahead of the US nowadays.
- jseliger 3y agoThe FDA is often bad: https://jakeseliger.com/2023/07/22/i-am-dying-of-squamous-cell-carcinoma-and-the-treatments-that-might-save-me-are-just-out-of-reach/ https://jakeseliger.com/2023/07/22/i-am-dying-of-squamous-ce.... It is good at "protecting" people from things that might help them. Like many others, I'm being protected from treatments that might harm me, so the cancer I've got can kill me instead.
- hypercube33 3y agoIt's wild we aren't digging into bacteria phages and instead roll down the antibiotics road while it's ok to use them for sandwich meats. Yes they are living and adapt but so does bacteria.
- autoexec 3y agoAny luck with that federal Right To Try angle?
- inglor_cz 3y agoHello Jake, I just wanted to tell you that I admire your fighting spirit. Best of luck to you and your wife.
- erellsworth 3y agoI worked for a place that recruited people to test stuff like toothpaste, mouthwash, and other personal care products way back in mid 00s. We worked with a lot of big-name companies, and one of them was trying to get approval for a very similar product. The criteria were very similar to what's described here, where the person had to be perfectly healthy and also wear dentures. I think it took us about a year to recruit like 3 people before they just gave up and dropped the whole thing.
- Symmetry 3y agoIn 2020 the FDA wanted people developing tests for Covid-19 to get some SARS to make sure their test didn't accidentally show a false positive when SARS was present. But of course there was no way the CDC was going to hand out SARS to random research labs. I'm pretty sure this is just someone at the FDA trying to be diligent in their own way. Mostly this is downstream of powerful companies being able to sue the FDA for allowing things if the FDA doesn't follow procedure, which the FDA wants to avoid.
- upon_drumhead 3y agoI've just started using ProBiora3 to try to reduce my gingivitis levels. I would love a one-application solution and will be watching this closely.
- citruscomputing 3y agoI used this one for a little while and I regret it. I'm pretty sure it messed up my mouth microbiome -- been having worse breath, more deposits on teeth/tooth pain, and a lot of gum bleeding. All once I stopped taking it.
- selcuka 3y agoMy understanding is that bacteria that cause gingivitis thrive in a different pH level than the ones that cause cavities. I have no cavities but I am in a constant battle with gum disease. I don't think this specific strain will help us, but it can obviously lead the way. Has ProBiora3 helped?
- fastball 3y agoHave you tried just using interdental brushes, like these[1]? Using these once a day did wonders for my gingivitis levels. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Sunstar-6505A-Soft-Picks-Advanced-Pack/dp/B07GHFTKT4/ https://www.amazon.com/Sunstar-6505A-Soft-Picks-Advanced-Pac...
- speedylight 3y ago
- kjkjadksj 3y agoCheesemakers take advantage of something similar. Good mold on cheese makes it harder for bad mold to gain a foothold.
- woleium 3y agoyes indeed, it’s actually safer to use the wooden barrels than the new stainless ones for this exact reason. https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/microbiolspec.cm-0008-2012 https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/microbiolspec.cm-0008-2...
- onionisafruit 3y agoBlessed are the cheese makers for they shall see the good mold
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoRelated: Story out of Japan that has been getting attention in the last year around here Japan pharma startup to begin human trials of tooth regrowth drug in 2024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37638956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37638956
- matthewfcarlson 3y agoSigned up for the longer term offering, I'm super intrigued by it.
- gamblor956 3y agoThis seems like a scam... The author claims that the FDA set impossible standards for getting this approved when it was originally discovered and that those same standards prevent them from seeking FDA approval now....but further down acknowledges that probiotics like this product are actually subject to much more lenient standards.
- justrealist 3y agoI really hate to appeal to authority but Scott Alexander is the single last person on earth, and I am not exaggerating, who I would accuse of analyzing a topic in bad faith.
- yosame 3y agoScott absolutely analyses topics in bad faith, particularly when it comes to politics or movements/people he personally supports. Here's one where he essentially says 'no study is ever fully representative, therefore my friends twitter polls are exactly as good evidence as a scientific study': https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/selection-bias-is-a-fact-of-life https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/selection-bias-is-a-fact-of...
- Sankozi 3y agoYour comment is an example of analyzing in bad faith. In the linked article there is a whole section that starts with "Selection bias is disastrous if". He definitely does not says anything remotely close to "twitter polls are exactly as good evidence as a scientific study".
- yosame 3y agoIt's essentially the thesis of the post. I will say the "exactly" part was a bit hyperbolic. He starts by stating that people say his surveys and Aella's Twitter polls (which he calls surveys) have selection bias, meaning the conclusions don't count. He then goes on to say (paraphrasing): "people say surveys have selection bias, but don't think real scientific studies have selection bias" and in the next paragraph says "but scientific studies do have selection bias and that's ok." Note that in this section, he is implictly relating scientific studies with his and aellas surveys. In the section that starts with "selection bias is disasterous if", he gives a narrow view of why and when it's bad: "only if you're doing a poll or census that should include everyone". He neglects to say the ways in which it's bad for literally all science (it's a massive problem in drug RCTs, but he literally uses RCTs as a point for why selection bias isn't so bad later on). In the next few paragraphs he says that selection bias is fine for correlations, and gives some examples of when scientific studies have selection bias that we accept (I'm not going into details here because the post is long, and I'm on my phone). So he's said why selection bias is present in science, and that it's only really bad for census's and polls. He then concludes, "hey guys stop saying surveys are bad because selection bias, science is also biased". In this post he starts by bringing up a critism of Aella's 'research', which she uses data from Twitter polls for. He then implicitly equates surveys and scientific studies, and says "look, science is biased too, so selection bias isn't bad". He then concludes, "so stop saying surveys are a bad because of selection bias". He might not literally say "twitter polls are exactly as good evidence as a scientific study", but the point of the post was to detract from the valid criticisms against his and Aella's posts that use survey/twitter poll data by saying "science does it too".
- Proven 3y ago[dead]
- david_l_lin 3y agoThis story has been around for far too long and evidence is unbelievably weak, and the claims border on fraudulent. 1. The claim that this strain outcompetes the same S mutans from occupying the same niche cannot be true unless this strain is also capable of creating and tolerating environments with low pH. By definition if it creates acid to the same degree it will also cause cavities. 2. Single applications are insufficient to cause any persistent colonization. Even multiple daily applications of oral probiotics don’t lead to colonization. Oral probiotics function primarily through bacteriocins, not through colonization (except in very rare cases). This is because the existing microbiome is incredibly difficult to outcompete. The community in your mouth has evolved for as long as you have lived, and in some ways was shaped for generations before as it’s technically inherited from your ancestors. 3. S mutans is not the only species that causes cavities. S sobrinus, S wiggsiae, B dentium, about a dozen other acidogenic species also cause cavities. Source: I’m a cofounder at Bristle Health, the oral microbiome company.
- margalabargala 3y agoYour first point seems wrong. > cannot be true unless this strain is also capable of creating and tolerating environments with low pH Whether it can tolerate low pH environments is not particularly related to whether it creates low pH environments. If it's agnostic to pH levels around that range, then it can inhabit that niche whether or not there is acid being secreted.
- david_l_lin 3y agoI should clarify: there’s some more details to why S mutans actually requires low pH. The correct term wouldn’t be “tolerate low pH” but rather “requires low pH” for its stable colonization. S mutans creates incipient lesions by making acid, incipient lesions are micro environments where the low pH that causes enamel decay is determined by the biofilm on its surface. S mutans cannot thrive in environments with neutral or high pH. the existing community (including other Streptococcus species) create local alkaline environment via multiple metabolic pathways, including the most well studied and prevalent arginine deiminase system. A “normal” healthy community antagonizes S mutans by maintaining a normal pH in saliva and the tooth surface, preventing stable colonization by S mutans. Without acid production, S mutans cannot stably colonize. and is readily outcompeted by the existing community. Any novel strains of S mutans to “compete for the same niche” will suffer the same weakness unless they create acid. but if this “probiotic” also creates acid, then by definition it also causes cavities. edit: adding citation https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/fmb-2018-0043 https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/fmb-2018-0043
- pkaye 3y agoIs there a way to determine if FDA actually set this requirement for the study? Is it on public record? Or do we just have to rely on what they claim. Also why not try getting it approved elsewhere first like in the EU if FDA is making it harder to approve?
- at_a_remove 3y agoI can only add that I wrote Dr. Hillman over a decade ago and he wasn't specific about it, only that the FDA's requirements were not reasonable.
- clumsysmurf 3y agoI use a similar product, LEF Florassist Oral https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02120/florassist-oral-hygiene https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02120... That has BLIS M18™ and Immuno-LP20® BLIS M18: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9012604/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9012604/ I have not noticed any difference.
- arcastroe 3y agoDoes this help with morning breath?
- clumsysmurf 3y agoNo :(
- Roark66 3y agoI'd want to know a lot more about that antibiotic these bacteria produce. If there is no natural immunity it will be developed very shortly if doses produced are low (and how can they possibly control for the dose). Then on the other hand if doses are really high, what about consuming an antibiotic for the rest of your life? What will it do to your gut flora? It seems very implausible to me. If I was working for FDA and someone was trying to bring such an obviously flawed product to the market I too would've asked them for very robust testing.
- selcuka 3y agoThis is already answered in TFA: > 3: Is it dangerous to have bacteria secreting an antibiotic in your mouth? Does this mean you’re on a weak antibiotic all the time?
- gumby 3y ago> They offered my wife and me free samples (based on her work, not as compensation for writing this post); she accepted, and I’m still debating. Given that it's an oral colonist it seems likely that the author has tried the free sample as well, even if they were to live in a no-kissing houshold. The title is a lovely garden path sentence: "A genetically modified bacterium that outcompetes bacteria causing tooth decay" -- a straightforward parse leads you to the plausible assumption that the genetically modified bacterium causes tooth decay. The insertion of a "the" before "bacteria" would remove the ambiguity.
- Nthringas 3y agofunny how one "the" flips the meaning of the sentence I thought I was being paranoid until I started reading the article I choose to believe this is a freudian slip, which means they're trying to cause tooth decay while pretending to do the opposite. If I were dentistry as a business, I wouldn't like this permanent (final) solution to tooth decay because of my unreasonably suspicions that the odontological treatment I received as a child was unconsciously intended to make me continue to need 'dental care' instead of fixing anything. Last time I was at a (very expensive private) dental clinic the treatment they pushed on to me was killing my tooth so I would buy one. I'm pretty sure some hugely powerful branch of dentistry is betting on people in my demographic (who get their teeth killed off) buying a full set of teeth from them in the future. But I would only accept Thompson teeth, the only teeth capable of chewing other teeth
- isoprophlex 3y agoRise up sheeple, and rinse out your mouth with bleach twice daily to remove any gentech germs! Big Teeth and their engineered bacteria are keeping us down!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- gumby 3y agoTeeth are an abomination and your body works hard to reject them, purifying your mouth and your soul so you can die appropriately shriven of your sin. Big Dentistry is trying to keep you from heaven!
- surge 3y agoSwap spit/kiss someone who gets this. Cheaper than dental insurance. Time to bring back the kissing booth.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rubidium 3y agoAnecdote time: My great grandmother lived to be 102 and never had a cavity. Kept all her teeth to the end. One time, an orderly who thought she was just being senile tried to reach into her mouth to take out her teeth (thinking she had dentures). My great grandmother bit that person; hope they learned not all old people are senile! I’m 40% of the way there. No cavities and rave reviews from my dentist. I brush—-best case —-once a day. I’d not be surprised if it’s a genetic lottery of tooth enamel, tooth size (small) and mouth biome.
- shmde 3y agoWhat is your diet ? I am assuminf there is no processed sugar or refined wheat/gluten ?
- mikk14 3y agoNot OP, but in a similar situation. I'm 39, the last time a dentist looked in my mouth I was probably 16 or so* and I brush only once a day (after breakfast, which is the least effective over doing it before going to sleep). Never had a cavity. I don't think I have halitosis, at least the people I have kissed over the years never complained to me. Being Italian, I eat pasta literally every day, and my daily breakfast is chocolate chip cookies. My impression is that mouth health is 100% genetics and biome lottery. * I have extreme mistrust in their profession, due to bad experiences. When I was a kid, I injured a milk tooth which turned black. The dentist shrugged and said that it would fall normally. It didn't and it fucked up all permanent teeth that sprouted in random directions in the area. Every single dentist surveyed to fix the problem requested gigantic payments (to the tune of tens thousands of dollars, this was in the 90s in Italy, so adjust for inflation and cost of living to know how crazy this was) without providing any result guarantees, so I kept my crooked teeth. It doesn't help dentistry in Italy is that profession where you mainly do tax evasion, and occasionally look into people mouths to pass the time.
- Al-Khwarizmi 3y ago41 here, and also not seen by a dentist since I was around 16. No cavities for now, that I know of. If I have any, they don't hurt, at least for now. Fingers crossed. My diet is rather unremarkable, I don't consume a lot of sugar or sweets but don't refrain from them either. I brush 3 times a day. I do have occasional halitosis but it seems to be related to acid reflux, my breath seems to be fine when I have no reflux.
- hackideiomat 3y agoJust chiming in to mention that xylitol seems to have a beneficial effect, similar to what this sounds like, though very different mechanism.
- Euphorbium 3y agoCapitalism does not allow this.
- tempestn 3y agoThis specific product aside, it seems to me there could be huge future potential in therapies involving genetically engineered bacteria. We can modify bacteria far more easily than we can our own genomes. And we're just beginning to develop an understanding of the gut microbiome. As that understanding improves, surely there will be opportunities to make beneficial changes.
- Beijinger 3y agoI just rinse my mouth every night with sugar, in addition to brushing. Have not had problems since. Effect of three-year consumption of erythritol, xylitol and sorbitol candies on various plaque and salivary caries-related variables https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24095985/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24095985/ Xylitol and erythritol inhibit real-time biofilm formation of Streptococcus mutans https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32600259/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32600259/ And, what I always expected, it is better to rinse with two sugars: Exploration of singular and synergistic effect of xylitol and erythritol on causative agents of dental caries https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32286378/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32286378/ two tablespoons and 50 ml of handwarm water (the stuff does not really dissolve good), a few drops of this: https://www.apodiscounter.de/myrrhentinktur-hetterich-30ml-p https://www.apodiscounter.de/myrrhentinktur-hetterich-30ml-p... This tincture might not be available in the US due to alcohol content. I saw only oil based versions in the US.
- danielsousame 3y agoTwo tablespoons of which? One of each? Two of each? What's the purpose of the myrrh? It seems to appear a bit out of nowhere in the recipe
- bigDinosaur 3y agoSugar alcohols*. You certainly should not rinse your mouse with sucrose as your first sentence implies would be fine.
- sgt 3y agoI rinse my mouth regularly with coffee and chocolate containing sugar. I always thought it was a bad thing. Bring on the donuts!
- Beijinger 3y agoI eliminated regular sugar to a bare minimum in my diet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure,_White_and_Deadly
- JR1427 3y agoIt would be nice to see some positive examples of where species (GM or otherwise) have been artificially introduced to an ecosystem and not ended up doing more harm than good. Otherwise, this kind of thing makes me sceptical, as there are always unintended consequences. I would only use this treatment if (amongst other things) the strain was engineered to be very sensitive to a very specific narrow-spectrum antibiotic, that is NOT produced by the same company offering the bacterial strain.
- seu 3y agoThe question missing there is: do small amounts of lactic acid fulfill a function, and if so, what happens when there's no more of it in our mouths? Will this have consequences on our digestive system? It sounds to me like they're focusing on one thing only and not thinking systemically enough.
- ryle_1 3y agoWe always hear good news in medical field but never actually see them in real life bunch of clowns who only want attention
- stuaxo 3y agoBonus points for launching it in the anarcho capitalist wonderland /s "Prospera", a Charter City. https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7a7ae/foreign-investors-are-building-a-hong-kong-of-the-caribbean-on-a-remote-honduran-island https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7a7ae/foreign-investors-are... > A controversial law allows these experimental cities, known as “charter” or “model” cities, to use a legal right to land known as “eminent domain”, which permits a government, or in this case charter cities, to take over private property. The community is worried that it could be forced from its ancestral lands. Of course, the model of Charter Cities is one the Tories wish to take to the UK - areas where laws and regulations would no longer apply, except the ones companies want.
- Horffupolde 3y agoWith good hygiene and dental checkups twice a year, you can reasonably expect to avoid cavities altogether.
- rewmie 3y ago> With good hygiene and dental checkups twice a year, you can reasonably expect to avoid cavities altogether. Your comment is self-contradicting. The only thing that dental checkups do is allow cavities to be flagged before they progress very far. Also, I feel that in this context "good hygiene" is a weasel word, in the sense that implies that any occurrence of a cavity can only be explained by the absence of good hygiene. There are many factors to cavities that aren't addressed by hygiene, such as vulnerable teeth and cavity types such as root cavities, whose primary risk factor is decreased salivary flow.
- Thimothy 3y agoThat's not true for everybody: people have very different mouth chemistry/ecosystem that depends on diet, genetics and god knows what. Some people can live with brushing teeth once in a blue moon, others will get their teeth eaten by cavities no matter what they do. Your advice is probably OK for the median person, but really does not apply to everyone.
- rowanG077 3y agoI used to believe this. Then I got a Girlfriend who I know brushes twice a day. Yet got cavities relatively often. I don't know why this is but there is a very large factor(or factors) that just makes some people much more vulnerable to cavities.
- kimi 3y agoSo, in order to bypass the FDA, you plan to produce a bacterium, export it, go somewhere outside the US, pass it to people and then everybody returns to the US? what happens if someone, ahem, takes a dim view of the process and denies entry on biosecurity grounds?
- cubefox 3y agoPeople aren't tested for any contagious illnesses when entering the country.
- fred_is_fred 3y agoNot since SARS anyway when they did take temps on entry.
- cubefox 3y agoI forgot about that.
- kimi 3y agoUnless there is a reason to.
- voxic11 3y ago> U.S. citizens cannot be denied entry to the U.S. for any reason https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-us-airports-and-ports-entry https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/know-your-rights/know-your-r...
- rewmie 3y agoI'm going off on a tangent here, but whenever I read about progress in dentistry I always get the feeling they are just sugarcoating medieval practices. In an era where mankind routinely flies people into space, the primary tools leveraged by orthodontists is still drilling and pulling teeth, and teeth replacement is still implemented as lodging metal spikes onto the jawbone. It sounds like the only progress that we had since the 17th century is clever ways to numb pain and how finer materials ended up replacing wood for dental prosthetics.
- inglor_cz 3y ago"In an era where mankind routinely flies people into space ... replacement is still implemented as lodging metal spikes" Osseo-integration of titanium was first observed in the 1940s, so the technology for modern dental implants is approximately of the same age as space rockets. (Wernher von Braun designed the first A4/V2 at almost precisely the same time.)
- EamonnMR 3y agoThe idea that they've engineered a bacterium that will successfully outcompete naturally selection indefinitely seems overly optimistic. They blocked the most obvious failure mode with the horizontal gene transfer pathway, sure, but considering how quickly antibiotics become ineffective I'm just not sold that their modified bacteria will be as untouchable as they seem to think. Certainly not 20 grand effective.
- slibhb 3y agoIt's insane to voluntarily colonize your body with a virtually untested genetically engineered bacteria. The article claims it occurs naturally but they have no good data on its natural prevalence and they added two additional mutations to the natural strain they found. Even if it's safe, is it effective? The only way to tell is to enroll the people who are colonized in a long-running study. Are they doing that?
- MostlyStable 3y agoAs the article points out: genetically engineered probiotics are already a thing. Everyone's risk tolerance is different, but this doesn't seem that big a deal to me personally. If it was already available for a more reasonable price, I'd probably get it tomorrow.
- slibhb 3y agoReally? Aren't you curious if it actually works? Feels like there's an attitude here along the lines of "we know exactly where cavities come from, so we don't need empirical evidence that our treatment works". Seems dubious to me!
- im3w1l 3y agoI have to say that releasing genetically modified organisms that can permanently colonize our bodies and potentially spread from person to person sounds like something that should be incredibly restricted.
- botanical 3y agoRelated Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caries_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caries_vaccine
- not_the_fda 3y agoIntroducing poorly understood and tested invasive species rarely goes well i.e. the cane toad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toads_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toads_in_Australia I'm not about to give it a go in my mouth.
- tiffanyg 3y agoThis was my "Mr. Hilltop"* style instantaneous reaction https://eandt.theiet.org/2018/05/24/top-10-invasive-species-when-pest-control-goes-wrong https://eandt.theiet.org/2018/05/24/top-10-invasive-species-... My favorite move, in God's** (actual) 4D chess game (playing off our ... tendencies, say), is when we try to introduce a species to get some benefit / value from it ... https://fyi.extension.wisc.edu/spongymothinwisconsin/history-and-spread/ https://fyi.extension.wisc.edu/spongymothinwisconsin/history... ... then, think - "gee, that worked so well, let's introduce a different species to try and undo the damage!" ... https://www.science.org/content/article/biological-control-backfires https://www.science.org/content/article/biological-control-b... There are plenty of further examples where attempts to remove invasive species have backfired in other ways as well... But, ya gotta admire that indefatigable optimism! To be fair and try for a degree of accuracy, we have obviously benefited, in the short term, greatly from technology, engineering, science, etc. ... But, there are certain areas where we do have an abysmal track record. Just about anything abstractly related to the so-called "gray goo" scenario being a prime example. Just like that recursive function you're SURE is limited no matter preconditions ... that takes down one of the main university computer systems the first time it's run... (back in the ol' days when there were fewer 'protectives' [codpieces being out of style even at that time ;)]) * https://youtu.be/DJ976Eb31qw https://youtu.be/DJ976Eb31qw ** For a suitable value of "God" (i.e., insert whatever term you use for everything ... the universe, the matrix, whatever... the relative personification of that particular word works better here, I think)
- ElijahLynn 3y agoHere is the recipe (linked from the article), it appears they opensourced it? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1744h_8sozZJ2wMR9X-j1GbsXXONzbNJL/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1744h_8sozZJ2wMR9X-j1GbsXXON...
- martin82 3y agoEat meat. Cut carbs. That's how you outcompete tooth decay.
- TobyFranklyn 3y ago[dead]
- jlund-molfese 3y agoThis quote seems like it can't possibly be true—is it? One would imagine that even if you avoided kissing anyone your entire life, you'd still get cavities. > Babies have no existing mouth bacteria, and get theirs from their parents’ kisses. Not necessarily their first kiss as a newborn (newborns have no teeth, and BCS3-L1 needs teeth to live), but their first kiss after teeth grow in. If you get this, you’re probably getting it for your whole future family line.