4 ms·

It's not micro management, it's a major point. Again, it looks like the consensus is that Tesla must accept a collective agreement (content to be left to the pa

It's not micro management, it's a major point. Again, it looks like the consensus is that Tesla must accept a collective agreement (content to be left to the parties to negotiate). So why is that not mandated? IMHO, you can't be outraged that Tesla is refusing, or at least trying not to have one, when the law effectively says that they don't have to. The level of reactions against Tesla does not make the system look 'nicer' than others: Maybe effective but actually quite brutal.

VoxPelli 3y ago
It’s there if employees want it and in eg many smaller companies there are no such agreements. It’s up to the companies and unions to handle. When Tesla has refused that for 5 years + have a global policy to refuse, then they are not handling it, which makes companies and unions react. To be clear: Companies in Sweden largely prefer this model over one governed by law.
SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
Who said Sweden does things this way in order to look nice? Not relying on laws like this allows for more adaptability to local conditions or preferences, if the system allows this, while also having mechanisms for enforcement when a company has simply decided "we don't do business that way, and we don't care if that runs counter to the local norms".
Barrin92 3y ago
>The level of reactions against Tesla does not make the system look 'nicer' than others It's not supposed to be nice. Swedish labour has understood a simple reality, you don't fight on your opponents terms. Elon Musk has a competitive advantage at hiring lawyers and buying politicians. So they pick the battle where they can actually win, collectively on the factory floor.
geon 3y ago
I haven’t seen anyone outraged with tesla. If anything, we swedes are confounded that tesla can’t seem to understand how running a business works in sweden. It’s not that hard. And just like tesla have the right to refuse signing, the people of sweden has the right to strike.
avgcorrection 3y ago
> The level of reactions against Tesla does not make the system look 'nicer' than others: Maybe effective but actually quite brutal. You went from calling this a bit “odd” and “a peculiarity” to “actually quite brutal” in the span of two comments. Jesus Christ the level of JAQing off in these Tesla threads from “the outside” (I wonder where) is insane.
jacquesm 3y ago
It's actually really simple: nobody is being forced. Tesla doesn't have to accept a collective agreement, they can just pull out of Sweden and nobody would bat an eye. But what they can't do is to expect Swedes to work as though they are Americans on American soil. It's Tesla that is the guest here, and as a guest you abide by the customs of your host. Don't like it? Don't visit.
xorcist 3y ago
No one is outraged, just confused. It's simple. Above a certain size, you either get an agreement or no one will do business with you. Put this way, it should tickle every libertarian mind. Free actors operating in an open market.

VoxPelli 3y ago

It’s there if employees want it and in eg many smaller companies there are no such agreements. It’s up to the companies and unions to handle. When Tesla has refused that for 5 years + have a global policy to refuse, then they are not handling it, which makes companies and unions react. To be clear: Companies in Sweden largely prefer this model over one governed by law.

SuperNinKenDo 3y ago

Who said Sweden does things this way in order to look nice? Not relying on laws like this allows for more adaptability to local conditions or preferences, if the system allows this, while also having mechanisms for enforcement when a company has simply decided "we don't do business that way, and we don't care if that runs counter to the local norms".

Barrin92 3y ago

>The level of reactions against Tesla does not make the system look 'nicer' than others It's not supposed to be nice. Swedish labour has understood a simple reality, you don't fight on your opponents terms. Elon Musk has a competitive advantage at hiring lawyers and buying politicians. So they pick the battle where they can actually win, collectively on the factory floor.

geon 3y ago

I haven’t seen anyone outraged with tesla. If anything, we swedes are confounded that tesla can’t seem to understand how running a business works in sweden. It’s not that hard. And just like tesla have the right to refuse signing, the people of sweden has the right to strike.

avgcorrection 3y ago

> The level of reactions against Tesla does not make the system look 'nicer' than others: Maybe effective but actually quite brutal. You went from calling this a bit “odd” and “a peculiarity” to “actually quite brutal” in the span of two comments. Jesus Christ the level of JAQing off in these Tesla threads from “the outside” (I wonder where) is insane.

jacquesm 3y ago

It's actually really simple: nobody is being forced. Tesla doesn't have to accept a collective agreement, they can just pull out of Sweden and nobody would bat an eye. But what they can't do is to expect Swedes to work as though they are Americans on American soil. It's Tesla that is the guest here, and as a guest you abide by the customs of your host. Don't like it? Don't visit.

xorcist 3y ago

No one is outraged, just confused. It's simple. Above a certain size, you either get an agreement or no one will do business with you. Put this way, it should tickle every libertarian mind. Free actors operating in an open market.