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> The only reason they have leverage is the law that gives Postnord a monopoly on delivering license plates Is that a law or an exclusive contract between the

> The only reason they have leverage is the law that gives Postnord a monopoly on delivering license plates Is that a law or an exclusive contract between the government and PostNord, given after bidding and a tender process as they call it in Europe and Asian countries? I think it's a contract, and contracts have exclusions in cases of forces majeures like strikes. Since the Transport Agency is required by law to provide plates for properly registered cars, I would think they would be required to let Tesla pick them up, or use a different carrier for Tesla plates.

thecopy 3y ago
Its a law
- belltaco 3y ago
  Given that PostNord is jointly owned by the Swedish and Danish governments but is not a government agency, it's strange that there would be a law that exclusively forces the Swedish government to use PostNord. There's also nothing in the law that states that plates have to be mailed and cannot be picked up, that's a operational decision by the Transport Agency. It's required by law to provide plates so it will be interesting to see how this turns out.
  - thecopy 3y ago
    You may well think that, and i agree with you, but that is how the regulation is, afaik. The plates have to be distributed by mail and Postnord has to be used for it.
    - martin8412 3y ago
      The deal is that whoever gets the contract has to deliver to all of the nation, not just where it's profitable. UPS, GPS, DPD etc won't commit to that because they don't earn enough money on that. PostNord is the only one who does, and therefore they're the only ones who can win the contract.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> contracts have exclusions in cases of forces majeures like strikes Tesla can't call force majeure on a contract it isn't party to. If the Swedish government wanted to break the strike, it can--trivially. There is simply zero political will to do so.
- logifail 3y ago
  > Tesla can't call force majeure on a contract it isn't party to Yet Scandinavian workers seem to be able to join in on disputes they aren't party to.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Yet Scandinavian workers seem to be able to join in on disputes they aren't party to Yes, there is a difference between association and contract. (As well as not doing something versus forcing someone to.)
- belltaco 3y ago
  The Swedish Transport Agency is required by law to provide plates. If it cannot fulfil its duties because of a force majeur event then it would be expected to explore alternatives like allowing plates to be picked up at the factory, which is not forbidden by law. It might be forbidden by the contract with PostNord, but PostNord is undergoing a force majeure so it cannot object to it. > If the Swedish government wanted to break the strike, it can--trivially. There is simply zero political will to do so. That won't be breaking the strike if plates are allowed to be picked up. If the government does not want to follow Swedish law and their duties, then the courts should force it to do so.
  - martin8412 3y ago
    The Swedish Transport Agency has already done their job. The plates are in transit.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > If it cannot fulfil its duties because of a force majeur event then it would be expected to explore alternatives I don’t know Swedish law. But this certainly isn’t the case in America.
alexanderchr 3y ago
Lots of guessing here. There is an exclusive contract between the Swedish state and the postal company. There is also a contract that forbids the plate manufacturer from sending plates by any other means than post. Transportstyrelsen does not agree that the current strike counts as a force majeure. This is (essentially) what the court case is about. Lower court agreed with you and allowed them to pick up plates themselves but the appeal court repelled that decision earlier today.
- belltaco 3y ago
  > Transportstyrelsen does not agree that the current strike counts as a force majeure That's interesting, I wonder what their reasoning is, I thought strikes were included in the definition of force majeure in the law. > There is an exclusive contract between the Swedish state and the postal company. There is also a contract that forbids the plate manufacturer from sending plates by any other means than post. Isn't there a law that states the transport agency must provide lawfully registered plates? Usually laws trump contracts.
  - alexanderchr 3y ago
    There is indeed such a law. There’s also a law saying that the state must provide me with a passport after I apply for one, but if their distribution system breaks down for whatever reason I cannot just show up at the passport making factory and demand my passport. I think it’s obvious that Tesla will be allowed to get their plates sooner or later, and Transportstyrelsen does not seem to be of the view that they shouldn’t be. They are more concerned about the practicality and legality of letting them pick up the plates from the factory.

thecopy 3y ago

Its a law

belltaco 3y ago
Given that PostNord is jointly owned by the Swedish and Danish governments but is not a government agency, it's strange that there would be a law that exclusively forces the Swedish government to use PostNord. There's also nothing in the law that states that plates have to be mailed and cannot be picked up, that's a operational decision by the Transport Agency. It's required by law to provide plates so it will be interesting to see how this turns out.
- thecopy 3y ago
  You may well think that, and i agree with you, but that is how the regulation is, afaik. The plates have to be distributed by mail and Postnord has to be used for it.
  - martin8412 3y ago
    The deal is that whoever gets the contract has to deliver to all of the nation, not just where it's profitable. UPS, GPS, DPD etc won't commit to that because they don't earn enough money on that. PostNord is the only one who does, and therefore they're the only ones who can win the contract.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> contracts have exclusions in cases of forces majeures like strikes Tesla can't call force majeure on a contract it isn't party to. If the Swedish government wanted to break the strike, it can--trivially. There is simply zero political will to do so.

logifail 3y ago
> Tesla can't call force majeure on a contract it isn't party to Yet Scandinavian workers seem to be able to join in on disputes they aren't party to.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Yet Scandinavian workers seem to be able to join in on disputes they aren't party to Yes, there is a difference between association and contract. (As well as not doing something versus forcing someone to.)
belltaco 3y ago
The Swedish Transport Agency is required by law to provide plates. If it cannot fulfil its duties because of a force majeur event then it would be expected to explore alternatives like allowing plates to be picked up at the factory, which is not forbidden by law. It might be forbidden by the contract with PostNord, but PostNord is undergoing a force majeure so it cannot object to it. > If the Swedish government wanted to break the strike, it can--trivially. There is simply zero political will to do so. That won't be breaking the strike if plates are allowed to be picked up. If the government does not want to follow Swedish law and their duties, then the courts should force it to do so.
- martin8412 3y ago
  The Swedish Transport Agency has already done their job. The plates are in transit.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > If it cannot fulfil its duties because of a force majeur event then it would be expected to explore alternatives I don’t know Swedish law. But this certainly isn’t the case in America.

alexanderchr 3y ago

Lots of guessing here. There is an exclusive contract between the Swedish state and the postal company. There is also a contract that forbids the plate manufacturer from sending plates by any other means than post. Transportstyrelsen does not agree that the current strike counts as a force majeure. This is (essentially) what the court case is about. Lower court agreed with you and allowed them to pick up plates themselves but the appeal court repelled that decision earlier today.

belltaco 3y ago
> Transportstyrelsen does not agree that the current strike counts as a force majeure That's interesting, I wonder what their reasoning is, I thought strikes were included in the definition of force majeure in the law. > There is an exclusive contract between the Swedish state and the postal company. There is also a contract that forbids the plate manufacturer from sending plates by any other means than post. Isn't there a law that states the transport agency must provide lawfully registered plates? Usually laws trump contracts.
- alexanderchr 3y ago
  There is indeed such a law. There’s also a law saying that the state must provide me with a passport after I apply for one, but if their distribution system breaks down for whatever reason I cannot just show up at the passport making factory and demand my passport. I think it’s obvious that Tesla will be allowed to get their plates sooner or later, and Transportstyrelsen does not seem to be of the view that they shouldn’t be. They are more concerned about the practicality and legality of letting them pick up the plates from the factory.