3 ms·
> the postal service in question is private and works like a private company, though the states of Sweden and Denmark fully owns it. A "private company" that i
by gottorf 3y ago
> the postal service in question is private and works like a private company, though the states of Sweden and Denmark fully owns it.
A "private company" that is fully owned by the government is private company in name only; hence my calling it a pseudo-government agency. Especially for a legally-privileged function that is serving postal mail.
- actionfromafar 3y agoThe government isn't meddling in the daily operation of Postnord. They can, via the board, replace the CEO. A blunt tool. The privileged function that is serving mail is clearly defined by law, but the right to strike is also clearly defined in law.
- bayindirh 3y agoDoesn’t matter. Even when you’re fully owned by a government, unionization allows you to do this. This is what unionization is, protects the worker regardless of your employer.
- robertlagrant 3y agoUnionization shouldn't be there to disrupt another company. It should be there so you can bargain against your employer. This seems really inappropriate.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> Unionization shouldn't be there to disrupt another company. It should be there so you can bargain against your employer. That's what Tesla's employees are doing. The point of a sympathetic strike is so that a small country's workforce can stand up to the likes of Tesla. Tesla can always withdraw from the Nordic market if they don't like the rules (which never changed). They don't want to do that because there is something there worth negotiating for.
- robertlagrant 3y agoBut it's not a sympathetic strike. They're refusing to deliver Tesla's mail. They aren't striking against their employer.
- 93po 3y agoTheir refusal to deliver mail can be viewed as a partial strike I guess
- bayindirh 3y agoThey are increasing the pressure on a company which is not treating their workers well and fairly. These workers are friends, wives, husbands, relatives… It’s more than justified.
- robertlagrant 3y agoYou're missing the point. I'm not debating the validity of whether people should leave Tesla and go work somewhere else. I'm saying that it's not a strike if you're just refusing service to a customer. A strike - whether because of your circumstances or another's - is you downing tools and stopping working.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> it's not a strike if you're just refusing service to a customer...a strike...is you downing tools and stopping working This hasn't been what a strike has meant in Scandinavia for a century. I'm American. I broadly think unions are ineffective and corrupt. But it's ridiculous to claim this strike is unprecedented. Even the pattern of an American company being flummoxed by it is deeply precedented. If you want to do business in the Nordic countries, you respect the collective-bargaining process. That doesn't capitulation. It doesn't even mean you must enter into one. But you can't blow it off, and at that so dismissively.
- peterfirefly 3y ago
- distances 3y agoOn the contrary, it's a crucial part of collective bargaining. You have to be large enough to bargain effectively. Companies in the Nordics aren't alone either, they have employers' organizations where a whole sector of employers band together to bargain with the unions. These discussions then produce collective agreements that bind the whole sector for a given timespan. It might sound alien to some, but it has guaranteed stable work conditions and a dedicated workforce for a century already.
- robertlagrant 3y agoI'm not saying they shouldn't go on strike. I'm saying that they aren't on strike, as they're still working. Refusing to service one customer isn't striking.
- distances 3y agoIt's just one company that doesn't play ball so a full strike wouldn't be appropriate reaction, especially as employers' organization apparently isn't a participant here. Say, striking dockworkers can paralyze the whole economy, all sectors. It's not a step to be taken lightly.
- robertlagrant 3y agoIt's not just one company "not playing ball". Spotify, with ten times as many affected employees in Sweden, also doesn't have an agreement. > It's not a step to be taken lightly. Well, there's no balancing downside to doing it this way. Workers still get paid. So they can do this pretty lightly, assuming their employers allow them to just discriminate against certain customers.
- martin8412 3y agoThe unions don't go after companies that provide better than CBA to all employees. I don't know if that's the case with Spotify though.
- yxhuvud 3y agoAnd protection against that is one of the things a company gains by making a collective agreement with a union. Without such an agreement, it is a grand melee between companies and unions.
- yxhuvud 3y agoThe problem is exactly that Tesla refuses to bargain with the union. Once you are dealing with the unions you will be safe from sympathetic strikes.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoIt seems like the people of the country were willing to do business with Tesla, but elmu refused to negotiate the terms under which the business would be done. No negotiation = no terms = no business. If this is what elmu wants, so be it. The people of the country will continue deciding how to run their country without this particular arrogant rich narcissist.
- robertlagrant 3y agoI don't understand - haven't the people to do the work already been hired? Wasn't business already being done? This is a post-hoc change to the agreed terms of employment by the employees.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoI would be happy to help you understand. Two concepts at play here, which are important to understand, are sympathy strikes (I'll leave it to you to check out the term and read up on the logic behind the action) and precedent setting (the people of the country don't wish to set a precedent of employers refusing to collectively bargain with workers).
- riversflow 3y agoWe should unioninze the military.
- Symbiote 3y agoSee https://euromil.org/our-members/ https://euromil.org/our-members/ for the European military unions.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 3y agoWe had the same conversation the last time it was posted. It’s exhausting. Sweden is not the USA.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kryptiskt 3y agoPostnord is a bit of a red herring. If the tender to distribute the registration plates had gone to UPS instead, Tesla would have had exactly the same problem with UPS workers.
- l33tman 3y agoDon't know why this was downvoted.. This is not Postnord's decision, it's the workers, and the same workers at UPS or any other postal delivery service could do the same.
- lucaspm98 3y agoIn theory that would not absolve the government from providing core services. For example, teachers can go on strike but children are guaranteed a primary education. It'd be the government's responsibility, not the individual citizen or business, to ensure core services enshrined in law are properly staffed.
- martin8412 3y agoYea.. And a car is a privilege, so not even remotely comparable.
- l33tman 3y agoAgree, I don't know what Transportstyrelsen has to say about the interruption in their service this provides. My guess is that they do have the contract with PostNord and are just pretty hesitant to break that and rather wait and see if the problem goes away. The government wouldn't get involved just for a few weeks of postal problems for newly registered very expensive cars, it's not like a crucial service to the people.
- numpad0 3y agoYeah so basically they're complaining they've got a court approved government sanction. They're technically free to whine like North Korea does, as they see fit, I guess.
- messe 3y agoFully owned by the state, not the government.
- pb7 3y agoThese terms usually mean the same thing. Do you want to explain the difference you're trying to highlight?
- messe 3y agoOn this side of the atlantic at least, the government tends to just mean the prime minister / head of government and their cabinet (and to an extent the associated political parties in charge).
- pb7 3y agoOk so what is a general term for your courts, your legislature, your bodies responsible for defense and foreign policy, your securities and banking, your monetary policy, etc? It's all government.
- messe 3y agoThe state? Government just isn't used as a term for that here, except as an encroaching americanism.
- callalex 3y agoIn amareicanese the government is called the administration.
- lucaspm98 3y agoThat's simply another pedantic distinction to justify state-owned and state-mandated organizations not providing core government services.