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I think it would be highly interesting if physicists/scientists could figure out how to create Lithium in the lab, maybe from Helium -- or some esoteric combina

I think it would be highly interesting if physicists/scientists could figure out how to create Lithium in the lab, maybe from Helium -- or some esoteric combination of Helium, Helium isotopes, Hydrogen, Hydrogen isotopes -- and/or energy... Now that I think about it, maybe it would be possible to make Lithium from a heavier element -- such as Beryllium (the next element in Lithium's period/horizontal row) and/or Sodium (the next element in Lithium's group/family/vertical row -- that is, an element whose properties are the most similar to Lithium). But, the point is, if scientists or future scientists can do that -- then we can end this Lithium debate once and for all! Oh sure, it may initially cost, like, trillions of dollars to do this in the lab the first couple of times (the history of using particle accelerators to transmute metals is a case study in cost ineffectiveness -- but then, so is the history of early mainframe computers, and so is the history of using rockets to send satellites to orbit) but eventually with continued experimentation, the cost should become cheaper and cheaper... First you make it work -- then you make it cheap. You know, the Elon Musk school of business philosophy... First you make it work -- then you make it cheap... or at least cheaper... Which was actually, coincidentally, Henry Ford's philosophy -- and that of the early American capitalists (AKA, "The Robber Barons" -- as well)... Also, I'd put that simple philosophy against anything that anyone could learn in a Harvard, Stanford or Wharton MBA program (*) for $73,440 and one or two years of their life, plus living expenses! First you make it work -- then you make it cheap...

pjc50 3y ago
There's no need to do nuclear chemistry when you can fish it out of seawater. > cheaper Physics sets fundamental limitations on how much energy you need, which means your lower bound is set by energy prices. It's not that scarce, it's not something like Polonium.
- peter_d_sherman 3y ago
  >There's no need to do nuclear chemistry when you can fish it out of seawater. I would love to see Lithium produced cheaply and efficiently from seawater as much as the next guy -- but tell me, is this a practical reality today? ? If there's a working Lithium-from-seawater extraction facility fully operating and producing Lithium at scale as of the current date -- then I have yet to see it. Would you kindly provide a link or links to web pages describing such a facility? Also, if seawater Lithium extraction is a present-day reality, then why do Lithium mines and mining operations continue to exist? I don't deny that Lithium could possibly be pulled out of seawater or any other Lithium containing substance for that matter -- but as of the present date, I haven't seen seawater Lithium extraction (like, from the actual Ocean) working and working at scale... So... Links please? But, all of this being said, Lithium extraction from seawater is indeed a great idea(!) -- if it could work and work at scale (and it quite possibly could, in the future!)
  - pjc50 3y ago
    You're the one who opened with "it may initially cost, like, trillions of dollars to do this in the lab the first couple of times" for the bonkers lithium nuclear synthesis idea, before moving the goalposts all the way to "If there's a working Lithium-from-seawater extraction facility fully operating and producing Lithium at scale as of the current date -- then I have yet to see it." The bench process is https://electrek.co/2021/06/04/scientists-have-cost-effectively-harvested-lithium-from-seawater/ https://electrek.co/2021/06/04/scientists-have-cost-effectiv... >> First you make it work -- then you make it cheap. ^ We are at step 1. Some nuclear fusion people are proposing using lithium as an input. Guess where they're saying they'll get it from. https://news.newenergytimes.net/2022/01/08/lithium-lithium-everywhere-and-none-to-use-for-fusion-reactors/ https://news.newenergytimes.net/2022/01/08/lithium-lithium-e...
    - peter_d_sherman 3y ago
      >You're the one who opened with "it may initially cost, like, trillions of dollars to do this in the lab the first couple of times" for the bonkers lithium nuclear synthesis idea... Most ideas which have advanced humanity in some way -- have historically been perceived as "bonkers" -- at the point in time of their inception. >"...before moving the goalposts all the way to "If there's a working Lithium-from-seawater extraction facility fully operating and producing Lithium at scale as of the current date -- then I have yet to see it." " Well, "goalposts" moved or not -- I still do have yet to see it... (didn't your initial reply change the original "nuclear chemistry" goalpost to the "fishing it out of seawater" goalpost?) That having been said, the links you have provided are very interesting and informative (thank you for them!) -- and perhaps lithium extraction from seawater at scale -- will one day become a practical reality!

pjc50 3y ago

There's no need to do nuclear chemistry when you can fish it out of seawater. > cheaper Physics sets fundamental limitations on how much energy you need, which means your lower bound is set by energy prices. It's not that scarce, it's not something like Polonium.

peter_d_sherman 3y ago
>There's no need to do nuclear chemistry when you can fish it out of seawater. I would love to see Lithium produced cheaply and efficiently from seawater as much as the next guy -- but tell me, is this a practical reality today? ? If there's a working Lithium-from-seawater extraction facility fully operating and producing Lithium at scale as of the current date -- then I have yet to see it. Would you kindly provide a link or links to web pages describing such a facility? Also, if seawater Lithium extraction is a present-day reality, then why do Lithium mines and mining operations continue to exist? I don't deny that Lithium could possibly be pulled out of seawater or any other Lithium containing substance for that matter -- but as of the present date, I haven't seen seawater Lithium extraction (like, from the actual Ocean) working and working at scale... So... Links please? But, all of this being said, Lithium extraction from seawater is indeed a great idea(!) -- if it could work and work at scale (and it quite possibly could, in the future!)
- pjc50 3y ago
  You're the one who opened with "it may initially cost, like, trillions of dollars to do this in the lab the first couple of times" for the bonkers lithium nuclear synthesis idea, before moving the goalposts all the way to "If there's a working Lithium-from-seawater extraction facility fully operating and producing Lithium at scale as of the current date -- then I have yet to see it." The bench process is https://electrek.co/2021/06/04/scientists-have-cost-effectively-harvested-lithium-from-seawater/ https://electrek.co/2021/06/04/scientists-have-cost-effectiv... >> First you make it work -- then you make it cheap. ^ We are at step 1. Some nuclear fusion people are proposing using lithium as an input. Guess where they're saying they'll get it from. https://news.newenergytimes.net/2022/01/08/lithium-lithium-everywhere-and-none-to-use-for-fusion-reactors/ https://news.newenergytimes.net/2022/01/08/lithium-lithium-e...
  - peter_d_sherman 3y ago
    >You're the one who opened with "it may initially cost, like, trillions of dollars to do this in the lab the first couple of times" for the bonkers lithium nuclear synthesis idea... Most ideas which have advanced humanity in some way -- have historically been perceived as "bonkers" -- at the point in time of their inception. >"...before moving the goalposts all the way to "If there's a working Lithium-from-seawater extraction facility fully operating and producing Lithium at scale as of the current date -- then I have yet to see it." " Well, "goalposts" moved or not -- I still do have yet to see it... (didn't your initial reply change the original "nuclear chemistry" goalpost to the "fishing it out of seawater" goalpost?) That having been said, the links you have provided are very interesting and informative (thank you for them!) -- and perhaps lithium extraction from seawater at scale -- will one day become a practical reality!