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I once interviewed a candidate who had previously worked for the DoD as an engineer that validated components. I was blown away by how far they went to ensure t
by cglace 3y ago
I once interviewed a candidate who had previously worked for the DoD as an engineer that validated components. I was blown away by how far they went to ensure the components they received were genuine and 100% matched the specs in their contract.
- baz00 3y agoYeah I did 6 months on a goods in line. We measured every single part and did full sampled testing. This was on defence grade parts as well from big vendors. They were rebagged, kept in stores ready for use so there were no surprises.
- H8crilA 3y agoWhy is the defence industry so much more intense when it comes to checking parts? Is it mostly because it may be years or decades between purchase and usage?
- AnimalMuppet 3y agoPartly that. Also they tend to push parts farther - temperature range, probably also radiation hardness, maybe some other things. When you need a part with a milspec temperature range, you really want to get a part with that range, not a part with a smaller range with a forged label.
- doikor 3y agoA lot of the environment stuff is more about actually testing that the part can take that. A civilian part might be very close (or the exact same part with a different model number) and even better in some cases but as it was never tested you don’t know.
- JohnFen 3y agoExactly this. In my day job, I program industrial equipment that operates in very unfriendly environments (lots of heat, vibration, humidity, etc.) We pay extra for parts that are certified to be able to take the abuse. Many of the parts aren't really any different than what you'd find inside consumer goods. They cost more because they've been tested and certified.
- gosub100 3y agoBecause you could defeat your enemy if you sabotaged their components! Say you were selling op-amps or oscillators you knew were going to be used in warfare. You could burn in an "easter egg" where they shut down if they received a particular RF pulse (or drifted wildly if they didn't receive some covert 'keep working' message). It would be a disaster.
- barelyauser 3y agoBecause when you under deliver on a government contract they can throw your ass into jail faster than you can say "Quidditch".
- QuadmasterXLII 3y agoProbably because the brass knows what they’re doing to the other guys’ parts, and doesn’t want it done back
- Turing_Machine 3y agoSome good answers here, but at the end of the day it's this: If the components don't work in a military situation, people might very well die. Sometimes a lot of people. A counterfeit microprocessor in a dollar store Furby clone probably isn't going to kill anyone if it fails. The same microprocessor in a surface-to-air missile? Well...
- polishdude20 3y ago>The same microprocessor I knew Furbies had the same killing brains of missiles! It's in the eyes.
- sterlind 3y agothat's the plot of Home Alone 2 if memory serves (except with an RC car instead of a Furbie.)
- lawlessone 3y agoNo Home Alone 2 is kid is lost in New York and a forced cameo with Trump. You are thinking of Home Alone 3 which is a cynical money grabbing shadow of the original two films. Personally small soldiers is my favorite missile chip in toy genre movie.
- kemotep 3y agoHome Alone 2 is set in New York. You are thinking of one of the later sequels that didn’t have Macauley Culkin.
- userbinator 3y agoIronically, related to this article, the original Furby has a 6502-derived core. Its source code was released a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751599 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751599
- toast0 3y ago> If the components don't work in a military situation, people might very well die. Sometimes a lot of people. Sure, but if the components do work, people might very well die. Sometimes a lot of people. Probably different people. Military (and aviation) want uniform, reliable parts and to be able to do post mortem investigation of failures where they lessons learned can be applied to the installed base and future production. You can't do that very well when you don't even know who made your ICs to ask them what happened during production or to improve their processes.
- awjlogan 3y agoMoney, time, and perceived/realised risk of failure (to both the end user, and the supplier). Any time you have enough of those, the scrutiny will increase. If you're making a chicken feeder IoT device, the amount of marginal QA cost you can tolerate is low (in fact, you're probably tempted to use the counterfeits...) and the only adverse outcome is a slightly hungry chicken. Medical devices have a much higher risk, but not as much money or time as military (a bottomless pit of both), so the QA level is higher there, but probably not as much as defence.
- _factor 3y agoWelcome to the world of supply chain poisoning. Go deep enough and you uncover local stores near defense companies and military bases which are targeted to contain modified inventory in the off chance someone buys it from said location. You might have some unused phone home chips in your coffee machine and not even know it.
- RajT88 3y agoI've heard some similarly wild shit on the other side - the market for illicit product designs. There are these boutique one-man contracting shops, which are closed most of the time in places like Shanghai and Shenzhen. They are contracted to do R&D for manufacturers, and deliver on firmware, product design, software, etc. but again are one-man shops which are closed much of the time. I am told this is how the pipeline of information works between state sponsored cyber attacks on big tech companies, and their Chinese competitors. Talking about Defense contractors, I've heard stories from govvies I know about asian dudes following them around the DC area, constantly catching them looking over their shoulders at coffee shops.
- JohnFen 3y ago> There are these boutique one-man contracting shops, which are closed most of the time in places like Shanghai and Shenzhen. That's not just a China thing, nor is it suspicious all by itself. I made a good living in the US doing exactly the same thing for years. The specific shops you're talking about may have been nefarious (I don't know), but the mere existence of private contractors is not inherently suspicious. They're pretty common.
- RajT88 3y agoMaybe I did not say it plainly enough. These one man shops deliver to Chinese firms (Like Huawei) hardware designs, firmware source and also other misc. software. All in one go, on contract under the auspice of "outsourcing R&D". Wayyyy too much for one person to deliver on, especially for a small office which is mostly closed. I am not sure if I am mixing up anecdotes, but my source has mentioned that the materials provided often contain the same firmware bugs as a similar competitor's product does.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoBecause they build things that kill people, and you want the right people to die.
- fsckboy 3y ago>Why is the defence industry so much more intense when it comes to checking parts? mil-spec parts need to meet specific standards, and since there are equivalent parts that don't have to meet these standards, the possibility and incentive for mislabelling parts is quite high.
- Mtinie 3y agoSidebar question for you: What educational background and/or practical experience route would someone have to get into the field? Is this a “requires electrical||mechanical engineering degree” role or can it be learned via apprenticeship?
- cglace 3y agoThe person I interviewed had an MSc in EE.
- nomel 3y agoMaybe you can't say, but is it safe to assume it's fairly easy to "fingerprint" apart? Or, do the counterfeits "get it right" enough where deep functional testing is required?