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More than 6000 thousand kids have died in the span of 2 months or so. The most powerful militaries in the world, and more than 12.000 civilians already dead, p

More than 6000 thousand kids have died in the span of 2 months or so. The most powerful militaries in the world, and more than 12.000 civilians already dead, packed together tightly as in a prison with nowhere to flee bombs raining down on them. I don't get why anyone can support that. No matter the pretext. History going back over 75 years with so much suffering on both sides, but death tolls magnitudes larger on the palestinian side. A side that was just mostly regular farmers before the first Nakba but slowly became radicalised. This conflict will surely radicalise the rest. Is that an active strategy? According to leaks in the Intercept it actually is: https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-c... Hamas was created as an active divide and conquer strategy.

free652 3y ago
According to Hamas, right? When someone throws numbers directly from Hamas, that someone lost all credibility.
- andrepd 3y ago
  No, according to the IDF, which disgustingly lumps together civilian and military casualties.
- zmgsabst 3y ago
  According to statistics, too: 2:1 civilian:Hamas ratio according to the IDF, with 5000 from Hamas dead and 10,000 civilians dead [0]; Gaza’s population is about half under 18 [1]. So if you figure deaths among civilians are random, then about 5,000 Gazans under 18 are dead. [0] - https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-m... [1] - https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-popu...
  - free652 3y ago
    I can read and suggest for you to do the same when providing sources: From [0]: >The Israeli military has not officially published any estimates of those killed.
    - zmgsabst 3y ago
      Apparently you can’t read the second paragraph. > The AFP news agency first reported the Israeli assessment on Monday, citing a briefing for foreign media by senior Israeli military officials. Asked about reports that about 5,000 Hamas militants had been killed since October 7, one of the officials replied, according to AFP: “The numbers are more or less right.”
pgeorgi 3y ago
> that was just mostly regular farmers before the first Nakba but slowly became radicalised Regular farmers who were asked by their Arab "brothers" to step aside while they eradicate the Jews. Surprised Pikachu face when that plan didn't work out and the result was that the farmers couldn't go back. The same "brothers" now tell them to not leave the Gaza strip (and enforce it by blocking the one non-Israel-controlled exit), and to rather die as meat shield for Hamas. Priorities, priorities...
- kossTKR 3y ago
  I've been to Israel and follow the conflict pretty extensively. The "Meat shield" disinfo is in the grand scheme of things nothing but a gross excuse for the extreme casualties, just like the 40 dead babies thing, or "cave complexes below every hospital" or other campaign PR like "we are doing it because of WMD's in iraq". It's excuses to dominate. Most has been debunked if you follow independent media. But it seems most here doesn't. US media is highly pro war and for some reason peddles these lies over and over again like Iraq, Afghanistan or so many other wars. Most people were just regular farmers. That you think a whole region were bloodthirsty barbarians really says more about the racism of american media than anything else. Most people are regular families just living everywhere on earth throughout all times. That's the beauty of humans, but war campaigns vilifies people so we can dominate them to "protect" us.
  - pgeorgi 3y ago
    > The "Meat shield" disinfo https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/12/Gazans-must-remain-on-their-land-Egypt-s-Sisi https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/12/Ga... cites al-Sisi: > On Thursday, he said that Egypt was already hosting “nine million guests, as I call them, from many countries who came to Egypt for security and safety.” > But the case of Gazans “is different”, he said, because their displacement would mean “the elimination of the (Palestinian) cause.” That's "stay there, no matter what", al-Sisi could unilaterally open the Gazan border, after all. In plain English: Meat shield. > Most people were just regular farmers. That you think a whole region were bloodthirsty barbarians really says more about the racism of american media than anything else. First, I don't consume american media. Second, most people in Mandatory Palestine were regular farmers, alright. The armies of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq were anything but.

free652 3y ago

According to Hamas, right? When someone throws numbers directly from Hamas, that someone lost all credibility.

andrepd 3y ago
No, according to the IDF, which disgustingly lumps together civilian and military casualties.
zmgsabst 3y ago
According to statistics, too: 2:1 civilian:Hamas ratio according to the IDF, with 5000 from Hamas dead and 10,000 civilians dead [0]; Gaza’s population is about half under 18 [1]. So if you figure deaths among civilians are random, then about 5,000 Gazans under 18 are dead. [0] - https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-m... [1] - https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-popu...
- free652 3y ago
  I can read and suggest for you to do the same when providing sources: From [0]: >The Israeli military has not officially published any estimates of those killed.
  - zmgsabst 3y ago
    Apparently you can’t read the second paragraph. > The AFP news agency first reported the Israeli assessment on Monday, citing a briefing for foreign media by senior Israeli military officials. Asked about reports that about 5,000 Hamas militants had been killed since October 7, one of the officials replied, according to AFP: “The numbers are more or less right.”

pgeorgi 3y ago

> that was just mostly regular farmers before the first Nakba but slowly became radicalised Regular farmers who were asked by their Arab "brothers" to step aside while they eradicate the Jews. Surprised Pikachu face when that plan didn't work out and the result was that the farmers couldn't go back. The same "brothers" now tell them to not leave the Gaza strip (and enforce it by blocking the one non-Israel-controlled exit), and to rather die as meat shield for Hamas. Priorities, priorities...

kossTKR 3y ago
I've been to Israel and follow the conflict pretty extensively. The "Meat shield" disinfo is in the grand scheme of things nothing but a gross excuse for the extreme casualties, just like the 40 dead babies thing, or "cave complexes below every hospital" or other campaign PR like "we are doing it because of WMD's in iraq". It's excuses to dominate. Most has been debunked if you follow independent media. But it seems most here doesn't. US media is highly pro war and for some reason peddles these lies over and over again like Iraq, Afghanistan or so many other wars. Most people were just regular farmers. That you think a whole region were bloodthirsty barbarians really says more about the racism of american media than anything else. Most people are regular families just living everywhere on earth throughout all times. That's the beauty of humans, but war campaigns vilifies people so we can dominate them to "protect" us.
- pgeorgi 3y ago
  > The "Meat shield" disinfo https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/12/Gazans-must-remain-on-their-land-Egypt-s-Sisi https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/12/Ga... cites al-Sisi: > On Thursday, he said that Egypt was already hosting “nine million guests, as I call them, from many countries who came to Egypt for security and safety.” > But the case of Gazans “is different”, he said, because their displacement would mean “the elimination of the (Palestinian) cause.” That's "stay there, no matter what", al-Sisi could unilaterally open the Gazan border, after all. In plain English: Meat shield. > Most people were just regular farmers. That you think a whole region were bloodthirsty barbarians really says more about the racism of american media than anything else. First, I don't consume american media. Second, most people in Mandatory Palestine were regular farmers, alright. The armies of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq were anything but.