5 ms·

Not surprising that it will go badly. Most of us have some secrets to hide, so the individuals that make up society have an incentive to exclude such people fro

Not surprising that it will go badly. Most of us have some secrets to hide, so the individuals that make up society have an incentive to exclude such people from their lives. I couldn’t trust a whistleblower. While grateful for a lot of the work they do, I never want to be their target and would never risk getting close to them.

jackdaniel 3y ago
While I disagree with your opinion, I appreciate a lot that you've stated it. That's a very honest thing to say.
- automatic6131 3y ago
  >I appreciate a lot that you've stated it Well, from an anonymous account, it means jack. Bull, even.
  - jackdaniel 3y ago
    People often lie not only to others, but also to themselves. Also I don't see a problem with somewhat controversial takes from anonymous accounts; given today's internet opposite would be brave/stupid.
- throwawaysleep 3y ago
  Is it that you morally disagree (I agree that it is a poor reward for doing me a service) or you have a disagreement about why society punishes whistleblowers?
  - jackdaniel 3y ago
    I disagree with equating whistleblowering and snitching. We all have dirty secrets, but let's loosely say that the scale matters. It is a different story when coworker tells "boss" who is lazying around, and a different story when someone reports a serious misconduct towards other people. I'm not sure how to phrase it clearly, but generally I would not associate myself with former people, but I wouldn't mind the latter. Maybe one day they'd prevent me from doing something really terrible (given I wouldn't know better).
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    Possibly a fundamentally different outlook? I would trust a whistleblower, but I would have difficulty trusting a person who would cover up serious crimes for an employer. Most employers, by the way, actually do not want it covered up when one of their departments is Doing Crime. (In particular if you're in, say, finance, or a safety-critical industry, you are not going to want to hire someone who has a known track record of failing to report crimes. I mean, unless you're, like, FTX or someone.)
monsieurbanana 3y ago
No, most of us don't have that kind of secrets. I have secrets, but if someone were to leak them nobody would seriously employ the term "whisteblower". Implying that because someone doesn't want to stay quiet when he sees unethical/unlawful things they can't be trusted on a personal level is a dehumanizing thing to say. I might be breaking a rule here, but this comment could probably be found verbatim in some company's playbook to discourage whiteblowing.
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  Imagine someone blows the whistle on you liking K-Pop. By the way, I don't like it at all. But just imagine if you were to like it and someone was to blow the whistle. I seriously haven't listened to K-Pop at all, I know it's just an embarrassing thing people do.
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    That's not whistleblowing, that's being a jackass. Whistleblowing is reporting illegal or unethical behavior that is causing real harm to people.
    - mewpmewp2 3y ago
      Imagine hanging out with Snowden, you both have done a few rounds of pints. Suddenly you slip up about your music preferences. Next thing you know, tomorrow you see a tweet on Snowden's Twitter account and thousands of comments laughing at you.
      - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
        That's not whistleblowing[1]. Whistleblowing is a legal term, not a "slipped up and told my mate's secret" event. 1. https://www.dni.gov/ICIG-Whistleblower/what-is.html https://www.dni.gov/ICIG-Whistleblower/what-is.html
        mewpmewp2 3y ago
whitepaint 3y ago
And I couldn't trust someone who couldn't trust a whistleblower. Like what the hell did you do that you really don't want others to find out..?
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > Like what the hell did you do that you really don't want others to find out..? It doesn't matter. This still applies even if you haven't done anything yet. Nobody wants to be friends with the kid who narcs on everyone. Show me the man and I'll show you the crime he's committed. Why subject yourself to that?
Buttons840 3y ago
> Most of us have some secrets to hide It's a bit reductionist to consider the things that get whistleblown about as just "everyone has their secrets". Alice is illegally spying on all of society, well, everyone has their secrets. Billy has a porno magazine hidden in his closet, well, everyone has their secrets. Charlie is stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from taxpayers, well, everyone has their secrets. Daryl is running a child trafficking ring, well, everyone has their secrets. Not all secrets are the same. > I couldn’t trust a whistleblower. While grateful for a lot of the work they do, I never want to be their target and would never risk getting close to them. So, you make it a little more likely that whistleblowers will have a hard time, and a little more likely that whistleblowers will be discouraged from ever whistleblowing in the first place. The end result is that you are a little more likely to be affected by the corruption that might have been stopped by whistleblowers. Everyone has their definition about what a "good person" is. Let me offer my definition. A "good person" is someone who is more likely to benefit than to be harmed by widespread wistleblowing. Good people should want whistleblowers to be protected and commonplace.
meiraleal 3y ago
secrets aren't crimes. to work with a criminal is much more riskier
Beijinger 3y ago
There is truth on this. People love treason but they hate the traitor. In the US you can get a lot of money for whistle-blowing. You will need it. Don't expect to ever find a decent job afterwards.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> I couldn’t trust a whistleblower. You see, it makes sence, consider that guy over there - corporate drone, climbing the ladder, would sell his own mother - totally trustworthy, you know what he is gonna do. But this guy, who values his abstract principles and integrity above any social contract? Can you tell when he has had enough? Do you even know what his values are? What if, one day, he decides that the place is so miserable, so corrupt, so complicit in suffering, that he just burns it all to the ground?

jackdaniel 3y ago

While I disagree with your opinion, I appreciate a lot that you've stated it. That's a very honest thing to say.

automatic6131 3y ago
>I appreciate a lot that you've stated it Well, from an anonymous account, it means jack. Bull, even.
- jackdaniel 3y ago
  People often lie not only to others, but also to themselves. Also I don't see a problem with somewhat controversial takes from anonymous accounts; given today's internet opposite would be brave/stupid.
throwawaysleep 3y ago
Is it that you morally disagree (I agree that it is a poor reward for doing me a service) or you have a disagreement about why society punishes whistleblowers?
- jackdaniel 3y ago
  I disagree with equating whistleblowering and snitching. We all have dirty secrets, but let's loosely say that the scale matters. It is a different story when coworker tells "boss" who is lazying around, and a different story when someone reports a serious misconduct towards other people. I'm not sure how to phrase it clearly, but generally I would not associate myself with former people, but I wouldn't mind the latter. Maybe one day they'd prevent me from doing something really terrible (given I wouldn't know better).
- rsynnott 3y ago
  Possibly a fundamentally different outlook? I would trust a whistleblower, but I would have difficulty trusting a person who would cover up serious crimes for an employer. Most employers, by the way, actually do not want it covered up when one of their departments is Doing Crime. (In particular if you're in, say, finance, or a safety-critical industry, you are not going to want to hire someone who has a known track record of failing to report crimes. I mean, unless you're, like, FTX or someone.)

monsieurbanana 3y ago

No, most of us don't have that kind of secrets. I have secrets, but if someone were to leak them nobody would seriously employ the term "whisteblower". Implying that because someone doesn't want to stay quiet when he sees unethical/unlawful things they can't be trusted on a personal level is a dehumanizing thing to say. I might be breaking a rule here, but this comment could probably be found verbatim in some company's playbook to discourage whiteblowing.

mewpmewp2 3y ago
Imagine someone blows the whistle on you liking K-Pop. By the way, I don't like it at all. But just imagine if you were to like it and someone was to blow the whistle. I seriously haven't listened to K-Pop at all, I know it's just an embarrassing thing people do.
- plagiarist 3y ago
  That's not whistleblowing, that's being a jackass. Whistleblowing is reporting illegal or unethical behavior that is causing real harm to people.
  - mewpmewp2 3y ago
    Imagine hanging out with Snowden, you both have done a few rounds of pints. Suddenly you slip up about your music preferences. Next thing you know, tomorrow you see a tweet on Snowden's Twitter account and thousands of comments laughing at you.
    - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
      That's not whistleblowing[1]. Whistleblowing is a legal term, not a "slipped up and told my mate's secret" event. 1. https://www.dni.gov/ICIG-Whistleblower/what-is.html https://www.dni.gov/ICIG-Whistleblower/what-is.html
      - mewpmewp2 3y ago

whitepaint 3y ago

And I couldn't trust someone who couldn't trust a whistleblower. Like what the hell did you do that you really don't want others to find out..?

jstarfish 3y ago
> Like what the hell did you do that you really don't want others to find out..? It doesn't matter. This still applies even if you haven't done anything yet. Nobody wants to be friends with the kid who narcs on everyone. Show me the man and I'll show you the crime he's committed. Why subject yourself to that?

Buttons840 3y ago

> Most of us have some secrets to hide It's a bit reductionist to consider the things that get whistleblown about as just "everyone has their secrets". Alice is illegally spying on all of society, well, everyone has their secrets. Billy has a porno magazine hidden in his closet, well, everyone has their secrets. Charlie is stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from taxpayers, well, everyone has their secrets. Daryl is running a child trafficking ring, well, everyone has their secrets. Not all secrets are the same. > I couldn’t trust a whistleblower. While grateful for a lot of the work they do, I never want to be their target and would never risk getting close to them. So, you make it a little more likely that whistleblowers will have a hard time, and a little more likely that whistleblowers will be discouraged from ever whistleblowing in the first place. The end result is that you are a little more likely to be affected by the corruption that might have been stopped by whistleblowers. Everyone has their definition about what a "good person" is. Let me offer my definition. A "good person" is someone who is more likely to benefit than to be harmed by widespread wistleblowing. Good people should want whistleblowers to be protected and commonplace.

meiraleal 3y ago

secrets aren't crimes. to work with a criminal is much more riskier

Beijinger 3y ago

There is truth on this. People love treason but they hate the traitor. In the US you can get a lot of money for whistle-blowing. You will need it. Don't expect to ever find a decent job afterwards.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

> I couldn’t trust a whistleblower. You see, it makes sence, consider that guy over there - corporate drone, climbing the ladder, would sell his own mother - totally trustworthy, you know what he is gonna do. But this guy, who values his abstract principles and integrity above any social contract? Can you tell when he has had enough? Do you even know what his values are? What if, one day, he decides that the place is so miserable, so corrupt, so complicit in suffering, that he just burns it all to the ground?