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I'm interested in the question: why does Bitcoin use water? Apparently some of the water comes from cooling power plants, but a lot of the water usage comes fro

I'm interested in the question: why does Bitcoin use water? Apparently some of the water comes from cooling power plants, but a lot of the water usage comes from hydroelectric power. From the study the WSJ article is based on: > Iran’s high reliance on natural gas for electricity production lowers the water footprint of its mining activities in comparison to countries like Canada and Norway where water-intensive energy sources like hydropower have a more significant role than Iran. Depending on the source, using hydroelectric power is not really a waste of water. For instance, another WSJ article linked from TFA [0] talks about using hydroelectric power from the Niagra river. At night, there is often surplus energy generated by hydroelectric power plants along the river. Both Canada and New York have pumped storage hydroelectric plants to handle the excess power generated at night from both hydroelectric plants like the ones along the Niagra river as well as nuclear power plants. And still there is excess power at night. You're actually doing the state of New York a favor if you can put excess night time electricity to use. 0: https://archive.ph/y3CFt https://archive.ph/y3CFt

lxgr 3y ago
Ah, here goes the "recycling otherwise wasted electricity" myth again. I just don't buy it from an economics point of view: Bitcoin miners don't stop mining as soon as literally anybody else needs the electricity – they stop mining as soon as local electricity prices make it uneconomical for them. In the end, they'll accordingly always contribute to raising prices from the demand side and will at least sometimes be pricing some other consumers out or, worse, raising the electricity price enough for gas turbines to have an economic incentive to start producing. (Renewables have an effectively free marginal cost per joule but are inflexible/unpredictable; gas turbines are expensive but flexible.) Additionally, some types of hydroelectric plants support variable flow – they can just increase storage levels instead of running their turbines at maximum capacity.
- 4death4 3y ago
  > Ah, here goes the "recycling otherwise wasted electricity" myth again. I just don't buy it from an economics point of view There’s not really anything to “buy” here. I just described how the New York Power Authority generates power. Here’s a press release from last August announcing a new facility for 20 MW of storage with a target goal of 6000 MW of storage by 2030 [0]. This is just battery storage and doesn't include other storage like pumped hydro. It’s just a fact that NY has excess electricity from hydroelectric power plants. 0: https://www.nypa.gov/news/press-releases/2023/20230825-utility https://www.nypa.gov/news/press-releases/2023/20230825-utili...
  - lxgr 3y ago
    Now imagine a world where Bitcoin miners would buy all that excess energy for more than that battery storage plant would be projected to earn after costs and you can see how Bitcoin is not just saving electricity that would otherwise go to waste.
Delomotoj 3y ago
This only means they are not paying the right price. They don't pay for the CO2. It's the most stupid thing to assume Bitcoin is a net positive for energy when it's clearly not. It arbitrage energy against a independent market. This leads to ridiculous stupid results.

lxgr 3y ago

Ah, here goes the "recycling otherwise wasted electricity" myth again. I just don't buy it from an economics point of view: Bitcoin miners don't stop mining as soon as literally anybody else needs the electricity – they stop mining as soon as local electricity prices make it uneconomical for them. In the end, they'll accordingly always contribute to raising prices from the demand side and will at least sometimes be pricing some other consumers out or, worse, raising the electricity price enough for gas turbines to have an economic incentive to start producing. (Renewables have an effectively free marginal cost per joule but are inflexible/unpredictable; gas turbines are expensive but flexible.) Additionally, some types of hydroelectric plants support variable flow – they can just increase storage levels instead of running their turbines at maximum capacity.

4death4 3y ago
> Ah, here goes the "recycling otherwise wasted electricity" myth again. I just don't buy it from an economics point of view There’s not really anything to “buy” here. I just described how the New York Power Authority generates power. Here’s a press release from last August announcing a new facility for 20 MW of storage with a target goal of 6000 MW of storage by 2030 [0]. This is just battery storage and doesn't include other storage like pumped hydro. It’s just a fact that NY has excess electricity from hydroelectric power plants. 0: https://www.nypa.gov/news/press-releases/2023/20230825-utility https://www.nypa.gov/news/press-releases/2023/20230825-utili...
- lxgr 3y ago
  Now imagine a world where Bitcoin miners would buy all that excess energy for more than that battery storage plant would be projected to earn after costs and you can see how Bitcoin is not just saving electricity that would otherwise go to waste.

Delomotoj 3y ago

This only means they are not paying the right price. They don't pay for the CO2. It's the most stupid thing to assume Bitcoin is a net positive for energy when it's clearly not. It arbitrage energy against a independent market. This leads to ridiculous stupid results.